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(Evangelion) To those who have a knowledge of film study.




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Ikari1



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 531
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:16 am Reply with quote
Hi, I'm currently writing an essay on an approach to film critcism and study known as 'representation'. My knowledge is not as good as i would have liked on this topic but this is the gist of what it means. Im writing in the anime forums about this as because I've not had the time to complete this along side the seven other essays I've had to complete this month, im using my trump card and going to write about representation with regards to evangelion. I know about this the most and so can bang out the information better. I would like you opinions and suggestions as to if this appraoch and choice of film, is acceptable in the first place, and what your views are on evangelion in terms of how it represents the world on screen compared to reality. If you know a bit about film study this will make more sense that the current sense it makes which is comparable to a gagged rooster trying to talk about the theroy of relativity.

I dont exspect masses of replies but any help any one could give would be much appreciated. Mods if this is in the wrong section i apologise in advance. I've got to finish this today so this is purley a shot in the dark and not something i would normally do. Ill be typing whilst checking the forum all day.

Heres a quote from my essay to start off with.

Quote:

‘The very definition of the cinema is rooted in the ability of it’s basic technology to present a series of representational images and perhaps sounds that create the illusion of movement where of course there is nothing but still images flashing at a prescribed speed. Once we think about it cinema is all 'special effects'. interest in the cinema must therefore begin with its materiality, with that which makes it a disticnt medium even before it is an art form' .


Im using Evangelion EOE as the film in question as critics have already said that they sometimes consider animation as the purest form of cinema in terms representaion simply becasue it creates movement and images that were not present to begin with.

So please...fire away anything you have to say about the topic.
As I'm working I will not be able to reply in much detail but any of your opinions about evangelion and its presentation of the world on screen would be welcome.

I hope that aswell as a study tool for me, this will also enable discussion about evangelion and the various themes that are discussed within, so feel free ( if the moderators dont see this as a topic already covered) to voice your opinions upon the many different representation and themes discussed and explored in evangelion. Any discussion will help me.


Cheers

Dean

'
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RangFlash



Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:48 am Reply with quote
I don't have much academic experience in film study, but I do know how to discern good movies from bad, and what makes a great movie.

To answer your first question, I think Evangelion is a good choice for this essay. I think it has enough merit to be considered a fine example of cinema, and how a creator can pour his heart into his creation.

I believe the art style of Evangelion, and the art of anime in general to be an attempt to create a new reality. What we see in many of them including Eva, are consistencies that allow the audience to believe what they are seeing could possibly be a different reality from our own. The way things are drawn, such as character faces, bodies, etc. show consistencies (exagerated big eyes, realistic bodies, for example).

Artistically speaking, I find that eva and most animes in general have some sort of agreeing consensus on how things must be drawn or animated, as a commune of sorts. Now this may contradict certain views of art, such that an individual must be expressing themselves honestly, but we must look at the Japanese culture before making any judgments. Japan has a very high context culture, in which the majority gets more recognition than the individual, and thus, an artistic style in the vain of Eva is not an artistic expression of the individual, but of an agreeing consensus among animators. This would explain the somewhat unchanging and unoriginal art style of Eva and most animes.

The same can be said for the "unreal" reality created within this medium for EoE, and for the consistencies present that allow us to relate and adapt to it.
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Ikari1



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 531
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:32 am Reply with quote
Thats fantastic. Theres some good points there.

With regards to the point about the director pouring his all into the piece. Would you say that the way in which he explores the characters very much human weakness, is a way of brining realism to the piece. Also considering Anno's state of mind when he concieved the idea's behind evangelion, do you think this also adds a measure of realsim to it. The repetition of certain sounds and images such as the train is interesting as well. This location is where shinji often has his little mind trips.
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RangFlash



Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Would you say that the way in which he explores the characters very much human weakness, is a way of brining realism to the piece.


Definitely! Characters with weaknesses are much more relate-able than perfect, Mary Sue goodie-goodie type heroes. If the audience can "become" the protagonist, and see things from their point of view, they will become much more involved in the storytelling.

Quote:
Also considering Anno's state of mind when he conceived the idea's behind evangelion, do you think this also adds a measure of realism to it.


I think it did add realism, and here's why. When he was creating Evangelion, it wasn't just him telling a story. It wasn't just him writing an anime that people will watch for entertainment. Essentially, he wasn't just writing it for the audience, he was writing it as a way to explore himself, and as a way to heal inner demons and find peace. This struggle he went through has made apparent influences on the anime, and it allows the audience to feel how he did while writing it. This is one of the primary strengths of good art: being able to make your audience feel how you feel.

So the realism is really reflected by the true and sincere feelings he had while creating the show and movie.
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Ikari1



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 531
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Essentially, he wasn't just writing it for the audience, he was writing it as a way to explore himself, and as a way to heal inner demons and find peace. This struggle he went through has made apparent influences on the anime, and it allows the audience to feel how he did while writing it. This is one of the primary strengths of good art: being able to make your audience feel how you feel.

So the realism is really reflected by the true and sincere feelings he had while creating the show and movie.


Excellent, couldnt have put it better. This is one of the reasons I have so much respect for evangelion as a series. I've so far written alot about the use of close up shots and long shots as two extremes detailing both violence and action during spoiler[asukas's last stand] but im not sure about how to talk about the techniques and shots used during the Ispoiler[nstrumentalty parts at the end]. I know for example that theres a certain amount of subliminal messeging involved at the end but i often get this confused with episode 26. I know that anno included death threat letters as part of the back grounds during shinjis's revelation about him self at the end but im not sure what anno is suggesting to the audience with this.

Is there anything in particular that people think is an example of a
'essential scene' or a scene that defines evangelion in particular. I'm tempted to use the masturbation scene. I want to mention the drained whites and greys of that scene but cant quite put my finger on the exact reasons why they made that scene effective. What are your views on this scene?

To avoid arguments that are sure to arise about this scene in particular, please back up your comments with information about camera angles and other cinematography details if you can. If you didn't know, cinematography is basically shot composition and camera angels. It can include the types of lense used, such as deep focus and long shot. deepfocus for example is where every thing in the scene is in focus. Whilst it is strange to talk about camera angles and lenses' in animation it makes it easier to discuss in these terms.
I have an idea already about this scene but I would like to see how others felt this scene 'performed'.

I only have 200 words left now so if there is something that you think is particularly evident that i have missed or not already mentioned, fire away.


Thanks for the comments rangflash, they have been really helpful Looks like your the only one brave enough to comment so far. Very Happy
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Da Games Elite



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 124
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:58 pm Reply with quote
I've studied film.

Cinematically, Evangelion, as a series and the End of Evangelion, uses many long shots, usually lasting been a half second to even a minute or a minute and a half without cutting. There is much subliminal imagery as well. For example, the sandbox scene contains, what some people believe to be sexual imagery in subliminal messaging. The idea of the people being dolls or something to that effect might represent Shinji's isolation.

Another cinematic scene is One More Final: I Need You. Not a single line is spoken, save for one. There isn't even music. And yet that is probably one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.

It probably is the single greatest message in Eva. And that message is spoiler[You can always change yourself for the better if you want, conquer your inner demons, and solve all the problems in your heart. Just don't expect that the world will change with you for the better.]
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Ikari1



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 531
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:28 pm Reply with quote
Cheers games elite.
The sand box example makes my life alot easier as I was looking for a suitable example to use to mark down the use of sexual imagery.
Thats really helpful, I've just been rewatching the end of Evangelion again. There is often a grainy effect and odd old fasioned cinema noise applied to some of the instrumentality scenes but i cant find out what the name of this technique/s is called.

Right thats pretty much everything completed within the word limit I've been given. Now to fill in the bloody bibliography.

Thanks for all the help, it much appreciated.

If theres any more suggestions please carry on as I can always go back and edit my work if someone points out something stunningly bad that I've missed within the next 3 or 4 hours.

i know this is a long shot, but for future reference, and out of personal interest. Are there any good books out there deal with specifically japanese animation with regards to popular conventions and techniques.

Dean
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 3728
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:38 pm Reply with quote
Great book here:

Samurai From Outer Space

Silly title, but very insightful to how the Japanese ideologies and economy shaped their art form, and what distinguishes anime storytelling from many others. Pretty good stuff.

Sorry, I study film but I can't say much about Evangelion as I don't remember it with much profundity...
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Ikari1



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 531
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:49 pm Reply with quote
Thats ok, im trying to get some screen captures together to aid in explaining the essay at the moment. Thanks for the book reference. Its sounds as if it's exactly the sort of thing i was looking for.

Cheers

dean
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RangFlash



Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:48 pm Reply with quote
I'd like to read this essay when you're done, if you don't mind Very Happy
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Ikari1 wrote:
‘The very definition of the cinema is rooted in the ability of it’s basic technology to present a series of representational images and perhaps sounds that create the illusion of movement where of course there is nothing but still images flashing at a prescribed speed. Once we think about it cinema is all 'special effects'. interest in the cinema must therefore begin with its materiality, with that which makes it a disticnt medium even before it is an art form' .

I'm not trying to be harsh here, but if you want to write meaningful essays then at the very least you need to improve your English language skills. Are you at Uni or something like that? For our country's sake I sincerely hope you aren't yet.

And BTW, I'm not an Eva hater; I can almost guarantee you that I am the only guy of my age in the UK who drives around with a NERV parking permit on his windscreen Wink
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Elfen12



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 480
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:34 pm Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:
I'm not trying to be harsh here, but if you want to write meaningful essays then at the very least you need to improve your English language skills. Are you at Uni or something like that? For our country's sake I sincerely hope you aren't yet.


That was definatly... on the harsh side, my friend. I'm sure that when he's typing up his essay, he doesn't make the mistakes he does, and if he does, there's a little device called spellcheck, its quite useful and it comes in handy sometimes, eh?

-Elfen12-
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