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I just realized that the relationship "used to make" goes against the "rule" for how relationships work. Just as "B is a sequel of A", it should be "B is a compilation of A" rather than "A was used to make B".

I think this is a good time to update the relationships, so here are some ideas for new ones:

compilation: re-use of footage with same story, usually condensed to a shorter format
-> Macross Plus Movie is a compilation of Macross Plus OAV

remix: re-use of footage with different story (?)
-> Robotech is a remix of Macross
-> Robotech is a remix of Genesis Climber Mospeada
-> Robotech is a remix of Southern Cross

side story: separate story that occurs concurrently with the original story
-> pretty much every Doraemon movie is a side story of Doraemon TV
-> LoGH Overture is a side story of LoGH OAV (?)

please post your comments and ideas and then I'll add the suggestions that seem to have support.

I don't know about using the term 'remix,' it doesn't sound right. With music a remix uses existing lyrics and a different base sound or tempo.

I think 'recomposition' might work better for series that are sort of written over existing footage. Heh, it's sort of hard to define it no matter what term you use I suppose. That probably explains the question mark(?).

Hmm..

New story written with use/re-use of re-edited existing footage. (blegh)

New story told with use of existing footage. (simple, but not quite right, maybe.)

Separate story told with use/re-use of existing footage. (nah)

Re-editing of original footage used to tell a different/separate story. (ergh!?)

Use of existing footage to create a separate story. (simple again but, bleh)

Use of existing footage, often re-edited, to tell a different story. (I give up)

Maybe it's just me, maybe remix does work. I don't know. I'm sure someone will come along with a much better understanding of it (and the English language) than me.

I do like 'compilation' and 'side story' though.

I would suggest "amalgam"/"amalgamation"

Of course, then it only works for series like Robotech which combined series... Stuff like the whole Voltron/Go Lion stuff (or Cardcaptor Sakura/Cardcaptors) wouldn't fit...

Dessa wrote:

I would suggest "amalgam"/"amalgamation"

Of course, then it only works for series like Robotech which combined series...

I'd call them "chimera" instead ('cause I've never taken inorganic chemistry Razz

).

Dessa wrote:

Stuff like the whole Voltron/Go Lion stuff (or Cardcaptor Sakura/Cardcaptors) wouldn't fit...

The latter is just a rewrite and generally not considered as a different story. The former, however, is more similar to the Robotech case. Please refer to this thread for more information.

I can only comment on the ones I am familiar with.

Quote:

Digimon: The Movie (movie) is a [relationship] of Digimon Adventure (movie)
Digimon: The Movie (movie) is a [relationship] of Digimon Adventure: Bokura no War Game (movie)
Digimon: The Movie (movie) is a [relationship] of Digimon: The Golden Digimentals (movie)

To be honest, in this case I think dormcat had it right with "chimaera".

Quote:

Kiddy Grade -Ignition- (movie 1) is a [relationship] of Kiddy Grade (TV)

For this and the other two movies your "compilation" seems to work as that is what they are, give or take a scant few minutes of new material. If you could extend the relationship to the specific episodes ("Kiddy Grade Ignition is a compilation of Kiddy Grade TV episodes 1-11" "Kiddy Grade Maelstrom is a compilation of Kiddy Grade TV episodes 12-18" etc) then even better.

Quote:

Neon Genesis Evangelion: Death & Rebirth (movie) is a [relationship] of Neon Genesis Evangelion (TV)

This is a difficult one as the first half (death) was a compilation of the TV series, but the second half was essentially a preview of End of Evangelion.

For the ones I know, I'll comment with which I feel fit best

Quote:

Definition of terms as I used them:

Compilation - Resulting product consists of a [usually condensed] version of the source material, following the highlights/main events of the original story. Even if it is condensed, the basic story [generally] unfolds the same as the original. New animation may or may not be used, but it is usually minor, and usually used to bridge over "episode gaps" (i.e., places where one episode ended and the next begins, and they need a smooth transition).

[Example from non-anime, of a non-condensation that works for this as well: ElfQuest (Marvel Reprints) is a [compilation] of ElfQuest (original) (because they went from 20 issues to 32 issues, new panels were drawn to bridge gaps that were previously separate issues. DC's manga-style ElfQuest: Grand Quest reprint has also done this (it's now about 7 or 8 volumes for the original 20 issues).]

Amalgam - Resulting product consists of a new story created with footage of the source material, which may or may not be related. May or may not use new footage.

Note re: Amalgam vs. Chimera- My boyfriend points out that, generally, a chimera is a combination of 3 things. The term amalgam does not have any limitations, and therefore is more all-encompassing.

[Example of fan-done Amalgam: The AMV "Anime Academy Heroes". It takes footage from about 5 or 6 different series and merges it into it's own story.]

Remix - Resulting product uses footage from the source material to tell a new version of the same story. It may or may not include additional footage, but usually does. The story may begin the same way, but end differently, or could tell a completely new story.

[I can't think of any examples of this outside of the encyclopedia, but the basic difference between an Amalgam and a Remix is that with a Remix, the new story is a retelling or revamping of the original story (hence why I used it for the Evangelion and RahXephon movies). With an Amalgam, they're telling a new story that's usually unrelated to the original story (like Robotech). BTW, the reason I put the Digimon movie as a Compilation, rather than Amalgam, is that, even though it's condensing 3 separate movies into one, it still keeps the story of the original movies, and is more like a series being condensed into movies.]

Gaiden - Resulting product is usually new material, but is related to the source material. These are often side-stories, but can also be music videos or character highlights.

[More examples like X2- The official Weiß Kreuz videos (Carnival 2000, Tokyo Sling, Other Side of the Moon, and... sorry, can't remember the 4th one. I used "Gaiden" 'because it fits in with anime more than using 'side-story', and stuff like X2 really isn't a side story... X2 is... X2.]

This does, however, bring up another point of interest. What about series that share source material that isn't in the encyclopedia? Such as multiple series that are based off of the same video game, but aren't directly related to each other? (I'm thinking of the HaruToki manga, anime, OAV, and movies).

I'm with Dessa on the RahXephon movie being a remix of the series. A combination of alternate retelling and made from, and the original anime links into the remix by the phrase "remixed into:"

Thanks everyone. My thoughts:

Doesn't it feel like chimera carries a certain negative connotation? I'd like to avoid using loaded terms in the encyclopedia and use only neutral wording. We're not in the business of denouncing "hack jobs".

We can add comments to relationships so for Kiddy Grade (TV) we could have:
Related anime:
Kiddy Grade -Ignition- (movie 1) (compilation, eps 1-11)

Dessa, that's a great distinction you make between amalgam and remix. Very intuitive... once you read it! Wink

I just might use remix to replace alternate retelling and alternate ending

But I don't think we'll be using gaiden. Since all other relationships are in english, having a Japanese word thrown in there would clash. Like when I proposed new genres, initiallly I had "tsuyoku-naritai" in there, but because it clashed with the other english genres we changed it to "tournament", which is not quite the same thing but close enough. Likewise, I think side story is good enough.

Dan42 wrote:

I just might use remix to replace alternate retelling and alternate ending

I'm not sure about this. In many cases a long TV series is an alternative retelling of a single episode movie/OVA (i.e. "pilots"), without "remixing" any original material, such as the recent Strike Witches, unless you'd move them under remake category which, in this case, were animated by the same studio with very short interval in between and minimal audio/visual enhancements.

Dan42 wrote:

Likewise, I think side story is good enough.

So what exactly is the difference between side story and spinoff? I assume the former focused on the same people while the latter focused on other(s)?

I've replaced the relationships for the titles given by Shiroi Hane and Dessa. The possible of relationships are now:

related through story continuity
- sequel of (happens *after* the original; direct continuation)
- side story of (happens *during* the original)
- prequel of (happens *before* the original)
- spinoff of (same universe, focusing on different characters)

alternate versions of a given story
- remake of (same core story, "new and improved" animation/music/etc)
- compilation of (same core story, re-use of footage, usually condensed to a shorter format)
- alternate retelling of (same core premise, story diverges)
- remixed from (same core premise, story diverges, re-uses footage from original)
- an amalgam of (footage used to create a new story)
- alternate ending for (ignore end of original and craft new ending)

related through publishing structure / other
- part of (part of a collection/anthology)
- used to make (e.g. Macross was used to make Robotech)
- serialized in (ran in a manga magazine)
- adapted from (format change: manga to anime or anime to manga)
- related to (exact type of relationship is unknown)

Le Portrait de Petit Cossette (special) is a [compilation of] of Petite Cossette (OAV). The three OVA episodes were squashed into a shorter TV-aired special.

Quote:

Maria-sama ni wa naisho (special) is a [relationship] of Maria Watches Over Us (TV)
Maria-sama ni wa naisho (special) is a [relationship] of Maria-sama ga Miteru (OAV)
Maria-sama ni wa naisho (special) is a [relationship] of Maria-sama ga Miteru ~Haru~ (TV)

These three are a tough call. The naisho specials are short comedic scenes from the "filming" of Maria-sama ga Miteru with SD versions of the characters and using completely new animation. Maybe just "related to" would be best, since none of the other possible relationships really fit.

Also, you don't have it on your list of titles up there, but Hellsing Ultimate is either a "remake of" or "alternate retelling of" Hellsing TV. It seems to fit both definitions...it's a "new and improved" version of Hellsing TV, but everything after the first few episodes tells a different story from the TV series, since Ultimate pretty closely follows the manga and the TV series' later episodes didn't, so it can also be though of as an alternate retelling. Right now, they are not shown as having a relationship at all, but they definitely do have one.

Personally, for Hellsing (TV) vs. Hellsing Ultimate (OAV), I wouldn't even link them.

Hellsing (TV) is an adaptation of Hellsing (manga)
Hellsing Ultimate (OAV) is an adaptation of Hellsing (manga).

Ultimate isn't a retelling of the TV series to follow the manga better, is a completely new adaptation of the manga.

Dessa wrote:

Personally, for Hellsing (TV) vs. Hellsing Ultimate (OAV), I wouldn't even link them.

Hellsing (TV) is an adaptation of Hellsing (manga)
Hellsing Ultimate (OAV) is an adaptation of Hellsing (manga).

Ultimate isn't a retelling of the TV series to follow the manga better, is a completely new adaptation of the manga.

The encyclopedia usually does link them in cases like this, though, as in the cases of Negima! and Negima!? and Kanon 2002 and Kanon 2006. These were both completely new adaptations of their source material.

Reviving this thread because I just converted the relationships for most of the titles listed above, but there's still a few that I have no idea about:

Brave King GaoGaiGar Final Grand Glorious Gathering (TV) composed of Brave King GaoGaiGar Final (OAV)
Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years (TV) composed of Space Pirate Captain Harlock (TV)
Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years (TV) composed of Queen Millennia (TV)
Document Taiyou no Kiba Dougram (movie) composed of Taiyou no Kiba Dougram (TV)
Eagle Riders (TV) composed of Kagaku Ninja-Tai Gatchaman F (TV)
Eagle Riders (TV) composed of Kagaku Ninja-Tai Gatchaman II (TV)
Future GPX Cyber Formula: Early Days Renewal (OAV) composed of Future GPX Cyber Formula (TV)
Maroko (movie) composed of Gosenzo-sama Banbanzai! (OAV)
Mizu no Iro, Gin no Tsuki (manga) composed of Mizu to Gin (manga)
Tenku Senki Shurato (OAV) composed of Tenku Senki Shurato (TV)

So I'd like to convert "composed" to compilation / remix / amalgam / spinoff / etc. Anyone knows about those anime?

Interestingly (and annoyingly), the situation for GaoGaiGar Grand Glorious Gathering is similar to the renewed Haruhi Suzumiya situation. We're gonna have to figure that one out somehow. Sad

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