Forum - View topicFunimation DVD Quality
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kuchu
 Posts: 52 |
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So I received 4 Funimation box set from TRSI shrinkwrapped. They are FMA Set 1, Desert Punk Tin Case, Samurai 7 Complete, GTO S1.
First thing to watch was of course the FMA. So I unwrapped it, check all the discs and there I was literally cursing at the disc upon knowing that disc 2 has SCRATCHES!!! Cold sweats broke down while I decided to watch to see the quality. Yep, it froze on one of the episode. So I asked TRSI to send me a replacement and I got the authorization number just fine. Afterwards, I realized my other box sets are still wrapped so I quickly stripped them all and checked individual discs and I was furious. Amazon used Samurai 7 discs are probably way better than my brand new ones. There are scratches, SMUDGES!!!. GTO also has scratches. Desert punk has this weird color. So I called TRSI and asked them to replace them all. I was disappointed. I still have more Funimation back order DVDs and I'm scared already. Is this the usual quality of Funimation? I checked on the internet to read people's opinions about their quality and it seemed not many of them are impressed either. I wasn't impressed with my FMA either. The programming sucked badly that I couldn't skip the preview or FBI warning. I had to use an ambiguous method to pass them. The video quality isn't that great either. Too bad because of the monopoly industry I could only exchange them over and over until I get the prefect, flawless, brand new discs from Funimation. Don't they know about QC - quality control or disc verification. What a joke. And to think Mushi shi is gonna be handled by them too. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Interesting. I have a lot of titles from Funimation and can honestly say I've never once had an issue with any DVD I have purchased from them. I can't say the same for ADV or Bandai, especially Bandai as some of the worse issues I've encountered have been on their releases.
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kuchu
Posts: 52 |
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I still have a lot of box sets still wrapped. But upon the first three opening of ADV boxsets; Peacemaker, Yugo, and Gilgamesh(have watched this one till finish), the discs are flawless as I expected from brand new products. Their programming is just like others, you can easily skip the junks until the actual disc menu. DVD quality is to my expectation.
I don't think I have any from Bandai. I'm still waiting for TRSI big sale. I'll hold on to your words about your experience with Funimation just to give me some optimistic hope about my future box sets from them. Let me convince myself that this just happens to be my bad luck. Unless there are more people complaining about Funimation then it's time for me to break down the cold sweats again. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Even without damage, certain FMA discs would simply not play on any of my regular DVD players, although they would play on my DVD-ROM. However, I don't believe I've had trouble with any other Funimation DVDs, and I've certainly never had any arrived scratched.
Bandai, on the other hand, is known for some glitchy discs when it comes to their Anime Legends DVDs. I believe this error has finally been resolved, but there are replacement programs in place for shows like Vision of Escaflowne. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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I bought my Desert Punk Tin at Fye.
It was in pretty good condition with the exception of a loose disc and a fold in the insert. I have many Funi dvds and they're all a'ok. The only dvds i've had problems with are my Bandi Haruhi dvds. The last one i bought had smuges and scrathes and it was sealed. How was the packaging of the box they arrvied in? Maybe they got banged around in the shipping? That doesn't explain the smudges but yeah. I hope your issue gets resloved. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6903 Location: Kazune City |
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I think I've heard of scratching issues on that FMA box set, so you might not be alone there. Funimation does like to do front-loaded unskippable trailers on their DVDs. Those can usually be bypassed by pressing "Title" on the remote or pressing "stop" and then "menu." Of course this all depends on your player and remote. But I can't think of any Funimations discs I have that were seriously glitched or unplayable.
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kuchu
Posts: 52 |
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I keep hearing this complaint over their Anime Legends product. Witch Hunter Robin box set is Anime Legends which I really wanna get in the near future. Now, I wonder. Can you give me more information on how they've resolved the problems? The scary thing is I keep hearing people say their Anime Legends is similar to Viridian lines from Funimation which I bought my Gunslinger and Spiral box set. If their regular version is already this bad then what my Viridian would be. *shivers*
My box sets came in plastic shrinkwrapped. Most of the discs are tightly in place. I think some of the GTO are loose but the ones that have scratches are the ones that are tightly in place so there's no connection there. It's definitely their QC fault. I don't understand how could this badly damaged discs could get away. So much for their TLC over their "quality over quantity" they keep bragging about but again which company will say the otherwise. I will send them back to TRSI and hopefully I can get the perfect exchange. Is that so much to ask from a customer who bought and expected brand new product?! D*** Funimation for giving me all this trouble.
This thread is where I was first aware of FMA glitches. I was coincidentally watching anime from Right Stuf Inc. where I found similar annoying dvd programming plus lower-than-my-expectation video quality. Their common denominator? Aniplex, which is part of the degrading infamous Sony line of works. XCP anyone? I don't know if Aniplex is responsible for the programming and quality or not. Maybe someone who's an expert can correct me on this. I'm aware it could be an issue with my dvd player and my widescreen, but hey if most production lines are able to satisfy me why can't this one do better, right? |
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MokonaModoki
 Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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A rough count of my Funimation titles says that I've got about 80 of their DVDs and I've never had a QC issue with any of them actually playing. You made me a bit concerned though, so I've been back-checking some of my collection, including my FMA Season 1 Part 1 set. I was actually suprised to find that there was a weird sort of arc-shaped 'shadow' perceptible on my disk 2, but not enough to note if I hadn't been looking for it. It was definitely not a scratch and it played through just fine so I can't bother myself to care. I also have that same GTO set, and it checked out fine. My "Samurai 7" is all original release, so I can't offer any input on that set, but the DVDs I have are all good. Other than the aforementioned 'shadow' on the FMA disk, I didn't find cosmetic or physical defects on any of the disks I checked.
As for your concern about Funimation handling Mushi-shi, all I can tell you is that the first couple of volumes look gorgeous when played and push a nice high bitrate through the player. If there would be an issue that would create some quality concern with a hypothetical later crap-plastic set for it then it isn't apparent with the first edition DVDs. And re: 'programming glitches' for start-of-disc content that can't be skipped using the chapter skip button, you will find that this is fairly common on DVDs in general (although you are correct that ADV is nice enough not to do it). As Zalis116 mentioned, your DVD remote should have a 'title' button (but not 'dvd menu') that will take you straight to the main menu (and on PS3's using the controller as a remote it is the square button). Once you've located what you are calling your 'ambiguous function' you'll probably start using it for every disc in the future. |
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kuchu
Posts: 52 |
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It's okay if this is just my bad luck and weird coincidence. I'm happier to accept the fact than to think that Funimation lines are just blergh. I don't get why they would degrade the qualilty just to fit it nicely on the box set or thin pack. It has nothing to do with anything. The media is still DVD and their burner is probably still the same. They only different is just the thin, slim case and an external box which they can make it cheaply from printed recycled paper. Can't they just leave it at that? I'm not satisfied with my FMA quality and it's brick so....My ADV FMP Fumoffu thin pack has high DVD quality, enough to make me crack non stop without having to be annoyed at the broken lines of Chidori's hair or eyes for example. You're correct, the title menu instead of disc menu is what I used BUT, and they have to make it more different and more annoying of course, it only works after the warning and the nonsense Aniplex logo. |
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MokonaModoki
Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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This post is a bit of a long ramble, but since I actually went to the effort to do the checking I describe here I thought it was worth posting. And it probably actually is on-topic, at least as far as the topic subject goes.
Also, and FYI, it sounds like your 'title' function isn't working as it should and is behaving more like a "DVD Menu" button does on most players. "Title" should take you straight to the main menu right from the FBI warning. Also, the 'glitch' in question isn't an error, but is a DVD authoring option to try to keep the start of disc content unskipped. It's irritating as hell when it gets used on DVDs authored for rental purposes (which I think that Disney considers a license to advertise their entire catalog). And if anyone knows a functional equivalent to "title" to jump to the main feature for either HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs then I'd love to hear about it. To tell the truth I'm not sure if Fullmetal Alchemist was ever well encoded for DVD, or even if the source was good or not. I know that there are a few of their titles from @ 2005 that were authored by Vision Wise in Dallas that are frequently sources for complaints about video quality, so I have (albeit unfounded) suspicions about their involvement. FMA is one of those titles. FMA delivers what I'll call an 'old' average (for Funimation) bitrate of 3.5-4.5 Mbps that I've read can be fairly consistent among some of the titles in question. I mostly feel that the video quality of FMA is just 'OK'. "In-episode" video quality isn't particularly offensive compared to the opening, which shows noticable blocking and banding. I'm watching on a 57" TV, so these things can really show up for me. If you have HDTV you are probably familiar with the jarring feeling of "ugh...standard definition" that you get after watching some decent HD stuff. FMA generates that feeling in heaping helpings, even though it doesn't actually demonstrate lots of obvious encoding flaws. For quick comparison purposes, I checked a few other DVDs as follows: I figured the DVD for the "FMA:Conqueror of Shamballa" movie would be much better, but it actually delivered an even lower bitrate, swinging from lows of 2 Mbps to highs of 3.5 Mbps (this in the action-loaded 6 minute opener). I know that bitrate isn't everything, and the first time I watched it I used a 26" standard def television and thought it looked just fine. That said, it noticeably suffered from moving up to a 57" HD screen and looked a bit shabby in comparison to every other 16:9 DVD I checked. I was curious about what another company might deliver, so I checked Geneon's "Black Lagoon" next. I used DVD 3, Episode 1, Part B, which pumped out a nice average of right around 8 Mbps at 16:9 for the chase scene with the unstoppable maid. It looked just as great as I remembered (the reason I selected it). I swung back to Funimation to check Basilisk (DVD 1, Episode 1, Part A). For the "demonstration" fight at the castle that begins the series, this DVD delivered an insanely good bitrate averaging @ 9 Mbps for 16:9 video. The video quality was pretty much as flawless as I've seen for a standard definition DVD. I occasionally check out Samurai 7 on the Voom Animania HD station to remind myself what I want anime to look like, and Basilisk does not get beaten up in that comparison. So with that any growing concern I might have had that Funimation releases were necessarily lower quality got immediately spanked into submission. Note that although I could easily start the same episodes of Samurai 7 on DVD and HD satellite DVR and use my receiver to switch between them to compare video quality, I (a) didn't think of it last night, and (b) am afraid that it would make me cry. I checked Beck last to see what a 2007 4:3 release would deliver. Since I'd just watched volume 4 and had a still fresh impression that it had looked really good, I was expecting good results. I wasn't disappointed. Even in scenes with very little movement it delivered a bitrate averaging 6 Mbps and the video quality looked very smooth and clean. Since FMA and Beck effectively overlap in their time of original production, I'd be hesitant to try to attribute this to the quality of the source masters when DVD authoring looks like a much more convenient target. The bottom line for me from my empirical spot-check is that it leads me to believe that Funimation DVD video quality has vastly improved over the course of 2006-2007; that anecdotal reports suggest that DVDs authored prior to 2006 may be hit-or-miss; and that releases authored by Vision Wise at any time should perhaps be approached with caution. As for the quality of the cheaper collections vs the original DVDs, I'm just not sure. I'd need to do a side-by-side comparison. In addition to cheaper packaging to cut costs, it is also possible to go with cheaper media by going to single-layer DVD5 discs instead of dual-layer DVD9 discs, which would necessitate a higher compression ratio. I have no evidence to suggest that is actually what happens, it's just the sort of thing that I'm a bit paranoid about. My actual concern with this type of packaging is that I really just don't like overlapping DVDs just on principle, the plastic used for the holders is brittle and can easily break allowing DVDs to slide around, and (in one really horrible experience with Outlaw Star) can hold the DVDs so tightly that the DVD will break before the holder will release it. Edit: having posted all this I went and checked what animeondvd reviews had to say about the video on the same titles. They thought the video for FMA (series and movie) was just swell, didn't like the quality of Basilisk, and echoed my feelings on Black Lagoon. I'm now left wondering whether my rig upscales ridiculously well or I just don't know what I'm talking about. |
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kuchu
Posts: 52 |
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Let me just skim your quote to what I understand and what I would like to comment on. Firstly, let me say that I am aware it's not a glitch. As a matter of fact I referred it in my previous posts as DVD programming, I know there should be a more appropriate term for this. I understand the content of a DVD is fully programmable to the heart content of the manufacturer. The glitch I wrote was referring to the frozen episode on Disc 2. I'm lacking the technical knowledge but thank you for your purpose of researching and at the same time educating your reader. I may say for sure that yeah, Hell yeah I know what HD could deliver. It's unfair to compare HD DVD with old DVD as there's really no comparison. It's a day and night difference in my opinion but still it does not mean that a DVD cannot deliver a decent quality which I'm sure you agree on this. I think I will wait a few more years for the HD DVD price to come down before I start collecting them. Nevertheless, my envy grows bigger and bigger by days over wanting to purchase Wing of Honnemaise combo DVD. HD over BluRay for me. My partner has convinced me with evidences that Sony quality is degrading over time. So once again Microsoft rules over the world. I personally prefer thin pack myself. Sure the it's mostly the cost but I find the pack itself is more attractive. The fact that it contains less space means limited movement for a disc when it's dislodged. Less space on the rack as well. The external box set should give enough sturdiness to protect minimal weight on top of another. Edit: It sounds to me you know what you're talking about. Maybe we should all just go back to tube tv and all will be well. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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MokonaModoki:
What do you use to check bitrates?
I know the feeling.  Down with Scanavo! Why can't they all just use M-clip hubs and with disc edge movement protection? When it comes down to it, pennies most likely. 
----------------------------------------- As far as DVDs (authoring) go I have not had any problems with FUNi's. Really the only ones that I have had really bad experiances (off the top of my head) with is Manga's Noein, and the first disc of Geneon's Lunar Legend Tsukihime and episode 8 of ADV's Rune Soldier (thinpack). Actually come to think about it, one disc out of FUNi's Burst Angel complete set did have some problems. But that was only like one half an episode, and it had flutters, but then the rest of that volume was fine. So either I am very lucky(considering that those represent such a small part of my collection), or that these occurrences just don't happen very much. I will say (and I don't own it) that I have heard a bunch of people complain about the FMA set. So that was probably some sort of run glitch. If that is the case hopefully they will do the right thing and do what Bandai did with VoE AL version. I am also concerned with news (contained within) that FUNi's version of GTO's set, since I have already ordered it and am thoroughly pumped about getting my own set. Hopefully my luck will remain strong. 
So to answer the OP's question, in my experiance this is not the usual quality of FUNi's discs. However, considering all the chatter about the FMA boxes, there most likely is a problem concerning them.
This makes zero sense. And by the way Mushi-Shi was handled beautifully. |
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MokonaModoki
Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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The whole HD-DVD vs Bluray issue just sucks. We bit the bullet and just went with both HD-DVD (Xbox 360 + ext HDDVD) and Bluray (PS3). From there we just let Netflix sort out which one we get sent as rentals and are buying very little until the prices get reasonable.
As far as anime goes, you can absolutely get very good quality out of a standard DVD if the job is done well. For a well-authored DVD even the gap between standard def and HD for anime seems much less obvious than it is with live-action content.
The PS3 has a function (accessible via the "Select" button on the standard controller) that displays horizontal bars at the top and bottom with the screen with information about the signal being decoded (audio format and bitrate, video format and bit rate, time played and time remaining). That's what I used last night. I've seen it on other players too, usually via a 'display' button function that either cycles through information displayed or throws up an onscreen menu. What any player may actually display definitely varies. I knew exactly where to find it on the PS3 from the flailing around I had to do to figure out how to use a game controller as a DVD remote. |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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Hmm. I don't have a PS3 but I have to say that I am suspicious of the accuracy of your bitrate figures for various Funimation titles. I haven't tested (watched some, but not tested) those particular titles myself, but the bitrate ranges I see for various titles seem wildly different than what I've encountered on the Funimation titles I do own, such as Moonphase. From what I've seen, almost all Funimation titles use an overall average bitrate of 6 mbps for both the audio and video combined. That's all I need to know, I've yet to encounter any title that looks substantially different. Your claims could be correct, I just heavily doubt them, that is all.
I would also point out that it is not necessarily a good idea to look at "average" bitrates for certain segments of video. You cannot be certain if your software is correctly calculating this "average" or not. I am not necessarily accusing the software of being completely dysfunctional, but depending on how it analyzes frames and "temporary average" bitrate it could easily give falsely high or low numbers. In reality, the bitrate difference from MPEG frame to frame generally varies by 100x or more depending on the type of frame. So instantaneous bitrates and "semi-average" bitrates of MPEG video are not necessarily a trustworthy figure with a universally accepted method of calculation. The only figure you can truly count on for an accurate average bitrate is to look at how much storage space the disc takes up in total. This isn't necessarily a perfect indicator of the video quality (which is determined by many more factors than average bitrate, but it's also determined by many more factors than bitrate peaks and lows as well) but at least it is a figure that I've found tends to be more trustworthy. BTW, I don't use a PS3 but I use both DVD-analyzing software and the caveman "stick-DVD-into-computer-and-type-DIR" method to check my DVDs. I don't believe Basilisk is authored to the high quality you claim, but again I'm not saying you are definitely wrong, I'm just saying I don't believe you. If you are willing to stick your Basilisk Vol 1 DVD into your computer and type DIR and tell us how much gigabytes the disc is (and how big the files that constitute the main show are) and return with a super-large figure then I'd believe you. But I suspect if you did that, you'd only end up with the same figures as most other Funimation titles.
I kind of disagree with all this too. For one thing, there are almost no well-authored anime DVDs that I'm aware of. The only ones that actually use a decent-quality bitrate (that results in video that looks fairly good to me) are a few Bandai Visual titles (that use about 8 mbps on average for the whole show, not a "segment") and probably a select few hentai titles. Two, I dunno of many HD anime DVDs in existence either, so I'm not sure what you are comparing with. Broadcast HD is terrible quality and doesn't count (at least the channels I've seen, I don't get many stations though), it is far lower quality than next-gen DVD is supposed to be. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong for sure, I haven't done the comparison myself. But I don't think you've done a correct comparison either. And I also disagree that live-action content benefits from HD more than anime does. That theoretically need not be the case....theoretically being the key word though. We won't know for sure until lots of (not just one or two titles, which may or may not be authored well) true next-gen HD animes start coming out. |
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kuchu
Posts: 52 |
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It makes all senses. As a free radical human, I love choices. Being depended on a single manufacturer, you can only accept with what the manufacturer manufactures, bad or good. Simple example: IPod vs DVD players Now, how many DVD players to choose from out there? One? No and it's resulting in competition on prices, quality and quantity. Compare it to IPhone. How many? One? Yes. No flash, no third party software and no other provider than AT&T. If you want an IPhone then you have to accept all the restrictions above. Of course in this silly case you can always say "well then choose another phone will ya?" but I'm making this example between and Iphone and Funimation DVD titles because it's similarity in its one of a kind product. Maybe in the future when their exclusive license has expired another manufacturer decided to pick up the title and remaster it and that would be good. But for now US legal DVD distribution for FMA is through Funimation exclusively. I never said that monopoly should never existed. I'm just stating the fact of the current condition and stating how much I wished there were more options to choose DVD selections other than from a single manufacturer. As I have said before, I would be happier to accept the fact that this is just my bad luck in receiving bad discs rather than to accept the alternative scenario that Funimation are producing low quality DVDs. If they decided to do better and delivered Mushi shi in a good quality, I couldn't be happier. That's why I created this thread, to know what really happens. |
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