Forum - View topicDid eva really change all of anime fandom
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Viga_of_stars
 Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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i remeber a while back in a mag i read about how eva changed the fandom in japan to a larger scale that it once was. suddenly a renaisannce (<-- cant spell help pls) of anime happened.
or so that was read and told to me too. so if we were to put anime on a timeline of fandome would it be.... B.E. = before evagelion and A.E. = after evagelion. or is there already an existing timeline. or is my thoughts just bullcrap {warning!!!!! if you gonna say bullcrap please justify by explaning the reason why this is bullcrap.] |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Wether it made an impact or not, Idunno. I will say one thing though.
evagelion = overratted. There was an old article that explained it better than I possibly could. animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/1998-09-09 |
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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Well I came along well after the Evangelion moment. But doesn't the fact that so many people on so many websites discuss it, that it has such a massive effect on the anime community in general...to the point where Eva is now eponymous with anime (much like DBZ is to shounen for example) as you'll find very few anime fans who haven't seen it or heard all about it. This kind of implies that it is a massively important series in the way that few others are. While it's quality or whatever are questionable the fact that it has had such an impact...the fact that it is one of the select few series that have had an ANN editorial about it (I don't know any others that have had an entire editorial handed to them) must mean something.
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Momoko_Yumi
 Posts: 98 Location: Heidenheim, Germany |
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Here in Germany EVA has allready such influence. Before EVA the manga/anime scene was mostly for kids who watched stuff like "Sailor Moon" or "Pokemon". And films like "Akira" or "Ghost in the Shell" where only known bye little fans. But than came EVA and showed that there are stuff for older readers. Most of the over 20 came to the animescene about EVA. And EVA is still a theme in Germany. There is a great fanbase here still after all these years. I myself came to the manga/anime scene through EVA.
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varmintx
 Posts: 1254 Location: Covington, KY |
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"=" =/= good argument For a more balanced article, read this: animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2002-06-11 As for the topic at hand, (which is not the quality of the show) I'm afraid I know little about the fandom in Japan before, then or now. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Momoko comes close, but stops shy of really pointing out the crux of the matter.
Evangelion's place is as a generational marker amongst fans. When you look along the timeline of anime fandom, the major shifts in fan generation occur alongside of the introduction of certain series. Robotech, for example, is the rallying cry of many mid-80's fans. A few years later, that rallying cry was Akira. Ranma 1/2, Cowboy Bebop, and Dragonball Z have all also shared this position. Generally speaking, these series become - for their generation - the inescapable series. The running thought is that you cannot possibly be a fan without having seen them. What makes Evangelion particularly noteworthy is that it's introduction coincided with really the first truly big expansion of anime in the States. As such, its original group of generational fans are (to quote Morbo) numerous and belligerent. Because the fans of the first big expansion of anime in the States picked Eva as their centerpiece, its been continually used as a touchstone for fandom. Its corresponding run on Adult Swim, and ADV's choice of the series as their flagship DVD title are also symptoms of this. It isn't so much that Neon Genesis Evangelion changed all of fandom, it's that a change of the guard happened around the time Neon Genesis Evangelion hit it big in the States. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I've always been interested in polls conducted in Japan. Eva almost always makes it on the top anime lists and usually ranks in the top 10. I only recall one poll where it was actually ranked number one. Eva didn't break into the masses since often the top notches go to Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko, Crayon Shin-Chan, Doraemon and other general audiences favorites when rankings are taken by non-anime fans. A quick search right now had a couple hits which show that Eva didn't have a huge hit in non-otaku culture..
On the Telebi Asahi page www.tv-asahi.co.jp/anime100 : Eva ranked at 24th with Lupin, Dragon Ball, Doraemon, Ashita no Jo, and Gundam at the top 5 spots. Yahoo Television has Sazaesan, Crayon Shinchan, Chibi Marukochan, Doraemon and Conan as their top 5. As for Otaku culture I usually check out amazon, although this is heavily skewed towards new releases. Typing Gundam into yahoo got 24,000,000 hits. Eva got 4,770,000 hits, Ghost in the Shell 2,260,000, Lupin got 2,050,000 hits, Saint Seiya 1,410,000, Yamato got 1,380,000. While this is an impressive number of hits, it pales in comparison to Gundam, which I often thought was the biggest mark in anime in Japan. I listed the other four for reference since often US fans don't know how big an impact these other shows (especially Lupin) made. At HLJ you can find 230 items in their catalog under Eva. You can find 2307 under Gundam surprisingly enough with the largest percentage (623 items) under shirts and sweatshirts. There are 270 items for Dragon Ball. There are 198 items for Ultraman. I suppose that the main conclusion from this is that Eva fans fuel a decent sized merchandise tie in, but no where as insane as Gundam fans. I think it is safe to say that EVA made it's mark in fandom, but didn't extend to the beyond to general audiences like Gundam, Lupin or even Dragon Ball did. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16974 |
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As stated NGE came over here around the time anime really started to take off. We had anime here already but many didn't know what anime was or just how influential it could be. When you start a revolution, which is close to what the anime explosion here was, you need your poster child. You need your flag carrier that will stand in the spot light for you and serve as an example. As mentioned that's what NGE really did for anime here. It said look at me here, aren't I so pretty and mature. Due to it's philosophical tones many people considered it a thinking man's anime. It was "deep" and you're not a fan until you've watched it. This is what real anime is all about became many people's moto. Centerpiece titles like this don't even need to be good honestly. They just need to grab attention and run with it and not let go. In all honesty, NGE was good but not that good. In itself as an anime series is was not as revolutionary or groundbreaking as many other titles. It was revolutionary for the American market of anime, but not anime itself. The craze over NGE reminds me of a cat playing with a piece of aluminum. Ask the cat its opinion and it would say that that piece of aluminum is the greatest thing ever. I mean it's way more shiny then the string. 
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d.yaro
Posts: 528 |
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The question of the impact of Evangelion in Japan had me going back and locating a couple of English articles that were on the Mainichi Daily News site back in early May of last year. One of the articles is an interview with the producer of the series, Otsuki Toshimichi. In the interview a query about the impact of the series on the anime world. Otsuki listed two areas which he felt the series affected the most: TV programming and the start of the transformation of Akihabara. When I lived in Japan in the early 1970s Akihabara was simply the electronics and home appliance shopping mecca. Today, we in North America know it has gained the status of ground zero for the anime/game/manga otaku culture. At least that's the impression we can infer from sources as diverse as Densha Otoko to DiGi Charat to NHK ni Yokoso!. Going back to the first item: Otsuki expressed his observation that TV networks expanded their "manga" programming and the content working its way into late night scheduling and satellite TV (after Evangelion had aired - my interpretation). The article about the interview wraps it up this way: "Evangelion led the way in forming the foundations of the anime business by pioneering what have become manga marketing staples such as screening on late-night TV, software sales and merchandising." From this perspective the way Evangelion changed the fandom in Japan has a fair bit to do with how anime is handled as a commodity. Once Evangelion tapped into the economic value of its target 30-something audience then there was no going back to the way things had been prior to that. Therein lies the renaissance effect of the series.
In my opinion it goes without saying that Anno Hideaki sparked the above so-called renaissance by creating a colourful, involving and even controversial work. The impression I have is that Anno set out to create a work for himself but also for all special effects and anime otaku. He added in his analysis of the stories, plot structures and character development in successful shows such as Gundam and Sailor Moon and their marketing techniques to come up with a whole package encompassing content and a workable business plan. Anno's success in all of this is reflected in the interest, hype and passion the show generated (not to mention the rattling of the cages that led to the creation of the two follow-up movies). All in all the strength of the content along with the well assembled business plan is something that hasn't been seen since that day. I'm not quite sure how to wrap this up. The impression I have is that whilst series such as Dragonball, Gundam or Lupin III are more loved they didn't have the impact Evangelion had in changing the landscape of anime as a business. It's like all that happened prior to Evangelion were varying degrees of success with a marketing model that had been tried and true since the 1930s (eg.: Norakuro). In that context Evangelion was the right product at the right place at the right time. Like the solitary oilwells that led to today's big oil, it's being made out as being the show that started anime on the road to becoming the big business it is today. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Okay fair enough, but like I said, Id just be echoing the article which explains it better. It does go a bit far though. Perhaps overrated is the wrong word. Flawed is better. It does alot of things right. The major flaws destroy the show and make it a failure in my eyes though. I dont mind the complex and confusing plot. The problem is a lack of awnsers/conclusion. The whole series is spend building up, the last few episodes are spent examining this buildup. But then thats it. Theres no conclusion. All these questions that have been building up all this time are left unawnsered. It also seriously bothers me that throughout the whole series, nobody is asking the question: wtf is going on? Is nobody wondering what exactly the Angels are or why theyre there? Okay, I've gone offtopic. regardless of how good the series is, it certainly made a huge impact. Probably moreso in Japan then here. But then thats where Anime is made so obviously thats more important. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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If you're going to go so far as to attribute some kind of major significance (like claiming an anime should get "Before X" and "After X") then there are two titles that matter and the rest are just hype from their associated fandoms.
For Japan, that title is Gundam, pure and simple. Gundam is the Star Trek of Japanese anime. Since the first one there has pretty much always been a Gundam and there will always be a Gundam (or that's how it seems). Gundam is the show that launched a thousand model kits. Shows like Densha Otoko are littered with GUNDAM models, it features GUNDAM cosplayers and has a cameo role by a GUNDAM voice actress. Evangelion had an impact to be sure, but that impact is overstated. Evangelion is like gospel for emo shut-ins, since they can empathize with the main character. But even though it persists, it didn't revolutionize the industry any more than Tenchi/Ranma did by encouraging harem show imitators, or DBZ with standard shounen formula imitators. Evangelion benefitted from timing being right around the end of the anime bubble in Japan and is LUCKY enough to have a fandom with decent disposable income and little else to spend it on. For America, there is no discussion, period. The ONE show that fan timelines should be based on is simple: Sailor Moon. Astro Boy was like the beginning, Robotech preached to the faithful and DBZ and Pokemon were marketting juggernauts, but without Sailor Moon, fandom of today looks VERY different. Sailor Moon did what nothing else would have done: brought girls into anime fandom. Without Sailor Moon you don't have Fruits Basket leading manga sales. Without Sailor Moon you probably don't have the Yaoi movement (oh how I WISH...). Without Sailor Moon, numerous titles NEVER see the light of day in the US. In short, without Sailor Moon anime cons and fandom are still 80%+ HS & college guys many of whom never talk to girls and American and Japanese "otaku" is probably synonomous. Evangelion is considered a "must see" by many people, but it is a "preach to the choir" kinda show. Sailor Moon opened anime (in the US) up to a whole new demographic and is almost single handledly responsible for at least _2_ MAJOR impacts on US anime: -The foundation title for TokyoPop (who was a major factor in the aggressive marketting of manga) -Responsible for the "surge" in female anime fans (without whom the anime fan population is at BEST about 1/3rd of what it is today) Plus various "additional" impacts, helping prove the "shoujo" concept, adding to the evidence for anime on TV, etc. By comparison, Evangelion was the "money" title for ADV, but not the foundation (that honor goes to Devil Hunter Yohko), and realistically can't reasonably be attributed for any real "surge" in anime fans. Sure many people consider it a significant title and may even be a favorite, but there's other titles that could have had a similar impact for many of these people. (GitS, Bebop, FLCL) It doesn't have the significance of SMoon, period. |
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Mistress9
Exempt from Grammar Rules
 Posts: 226 |
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I am not quite sure if this will answer the question but at least for me Eva did change the anime fandom. Since It opened me up to the possibly of other anime genres and allowed me to discover the brillance of some shows/manga that I would never have watched if I never saw Eva to begin with. Let me explain further: When I first was forced to watch EVa I was mainly watching things like Sailor Moon.The funny thing is although my non anime viewing habits center around Horror, I was and will always be drawn to rommance side of the anime spectrem, however it was through EVa that i discovered the wonder of shows that were just completly messed up. Eva allowed me to move away from my one chosen genre and to peer into all types of generes. It made it so I wanted to know what was out there, so I am no longer just an Shojou or MAGICAL girl fans I am an anime fan who likes basically any type of anime except for Meca which is funny since Eva has heavy Meca influences in it. So although Eva isn't the best show out there I don't think it's overated either.
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Gundampilotspaz
 Posts: 20 |
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I look over at my DVDs and I see Evangelion at the very top and everything else proceeding afterwards. Which is, just about, the way Anime fandom hit me after seeing Evangelion.
I read some of the article posted above: animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/1998-09-09 and I have deep disagreements with it but this isn't the place to get into a flame war about Evangelion. ^^;;; I can remember first seeing the series, it was a huge shock to what I thought was anime at the time. Because it's Mecha I can easily compare it to Gundam. Gundam was simply guy has an opportunity to fight in a big mech, so he does it and is really good at it. The fact that gets to still is most of the first episode is Shinji refusing to pilot the Evangelion, which completely shatters the Mech Anime hero archetype and lies the ground work for what will come after. In the end it opened me up to a score of Anime I would have never seen if I hadn't watched that show first. I'm not too sure about Japan, but I'm sure there are thousands, if not millions, of Evangelion fans who probably fell into Anime the same way I did.. since around the time I became a fan the country saw an explosion of interest. (Adult Swim/Toonami helped, but I think most Adult Swim/Toonami fans stuck with the networks. |
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pyrex
 Posts: 66 Location: Richmond, VA |
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I've been thinking alot about NGE recently, mainly because I just finished watching Rah-Xephon and I defiantly can see some things that were taken from it in some form or fashion.
I'd have to say(and I claim no expertise), but to me I think the thing about NGE that helped kick start alot of anime fans is the much deeper story that it provided as compared to alot of previous mecha-type anime or even anime in general. Honestly, I've seen the series several times through and I still don't completely understand it all. The story has alot to do with personal introspection(how Shinji viewed himself, how he perceived others to view him, how he viewed his relationships with people, how he perceived the world, etc). My take on this is it opened up alot of peoples minds to the level in which anime could relate to real life. So in that regard, I think it is somewhat ground breaking. Is it a little overrated? In my view, probably a little bit compared to some other titles I've seen. But, it does stand on it's own merits and I think if you polled most of the people on here, alot of people have it in their collections and alot revere it in the world of anime. But this is just one mans opinion. |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Pyrex, the idea that Evangelion brought about "deeper" stories in anime is a complete myth - mostly self-propagated by creator Hideaki Anno and ADV Films.
Anime has had deep stories with layered symbolism and psychological content since the days of Tezuka's Phoenix and Metropolis. In the mecha genre, Go Nagai (Getter Robo), Shoji Kawamori (Super Dimensional Fortress Macross), and Yoshiyuki Tomino (Mobile Suit Gundam) pioneered deep storylines that examined both the human condition and major philosophical concepts. What Evangelion did differently (not necessarily better) was to make symbolism and psychological evaluation the focus of the show, as opposed to introducing it as an element in the story. Was it deeper than previous mecha titles? Hell no. But its change of focus was a complete 180 from previous mecha titles. Previously, mecha titles were epic stories about people caught up in something tremendous. Evangelion can be viewed as a much more personal story, with the character emotion being more a plot device than a form of context. |
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