Forum - View topicWhy do people care that shounen is considered childish
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naruto fan 09812
 Posts: 499 |
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When people mock shounen they usually fall on the augument that they were targeted to young males. I usually respond to that augument by saying do it reallly matter? Anime/cartoons got enough broad appeal to appeal to different audicenes. For example,my sister who is 28 years old like to watch Spongebob Squarepants when nothing is on. I hate when people brag how they do not watch shounen and watch more mature anime,for pete sake you are watching animation the part of you that did not want to grow up.
Last edited by naruto fan 09812 on Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ragg
Posts: 144 |
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Although I do not feel as strongly about this topic as you do, it is pretty annyoing. However, it's never really stopped me from watching a shounen series. I think what MOST people actually are criticizing about is the people who just watch Bleach and Naruto. Why? Well it doesn't matter to me how they might mimic the seals, or whatever, but what's annoying is how they talk endlessly about it, and think that they've seen everything there is to anime. That's just my take on this topic. I haven't really seen an example of people putting down shounen anime that hard, I mean after these last 2 episodes of Welcome to the NHK! I'm going to hit Shakagan No Shana.
Could you provide a clear example of this?...Such as what shounen anime is really targeted (Besides bleach/naruto), or is it a general thing? I know a lot of people on this forum have seen Fate/Stay Night, and it's not as if it's gettin bashed |
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sizzlin_chiken
 Posts: 69 Location: MN |
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Hmm idk I love shounen. I don't think it's childish. I'm 15 if that's still considered a child then o well.
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naruto fan 09812
Posts: 499 |
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It pretty general because I hate when people says that shounen is only popular because of the special super powers and that it targeted to young males.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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There are some shonen that aren't targeted for kids, and some that are. It's just that for the most part shonen is targeted for kids. I don't care though. I'm 21 and I love shonen in all forms.
I mean, shows like Spongebob and Fairly Oddparents are for kids, but there are things in them funny enough for people our age. Or Animaniacs, which is clearly a kids show, has mostly jokes that are either only understandable for adults, but some that are funny enough for both ages. But being more specific to shonen, two examples I can think of are Harry Potter and The Hobbit. Those were clearly targeted for kids as well, but they are dark, complex and just plain fascinating and cool enough for older audiences. Probably the best example would be superhero comics, which I have always compared to shonen being pretty much the anime version of them. They are targeted for kids as well, just look at how many adult fans there are of those. In my personal opinion, however, most people from what I can tell like to bash on shonen because of the simple formula they all follow more so than saying that they are for kids. In defense of that, I will refer back to my comparison of superhero comics. They pretty much follow the same formula every time as well, and that particular formula is not all that different from the formula shonen follows. So pretty much, if you can like any of these things I've compared shonen to, it shouldn't be too hard to like shonen itself as well. Basically, I think that as long as you've seen other anime and can be humble enough to admit that there are better anime, titles like Naruto and Bleach are still two very good series, and writing them off just because they are shonen for those particular reasons is as wrong as one saying that "WOW!!! NARUTO AND BLEACH ARE THE TWO GREATEST ANIME EVER!!!!!" Or at least that's what I interpret what you're trying to say anyways. |
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omar235
 Posts: 1572 Location: Florida, Jacksonvile |
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I don't really want to get in an argument about this but what makes them popular is their marketability, they have alot of merchendise sold for them and are widely advertised, they usally are the first genre of anime people new to anime see. Course thats not to say that is the only reason why they are popular but it does help it along quite well. I can think of many shounen titiles which are awsome like HunterxHunter and Rouroni Kenshin. Though i think when people say that a shounen are for kids they are talking about certain shounen like Naruto, DBZ, or Pokemon (that is just what I have seen people connect with child shows, I don't have an opinion on it really). I don't think that Black Lagoon was meant for kids even though it is a shounen. 
Well it looks like Ragg covered the second half of my post already...oh well. |
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Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
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I think one reason why people bash shounen anime for being for children is because they have an inferiority complex. Anime has had a negative stigma attached to it for years as being something that's childish, commercialized, and immature, so they think if they bash children's anime and only watch mature shows, it might change anti-anime fan's minds about anime being only for kids and they think it'll make them look cooler. Also, as hypocritical as it sounds, these days it's a current popular trend to hate everything popular just because it's popular. Some fans think that if you hate everything that gets played on Cartoon Network and only watch underground anime it somehow makes you look more mature and intelligent then people who like mainstream anime.
Last edited by Kouji on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:19 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ariake
 Posts: 13 |
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To answer your question, it really doesn't matter. But I'd say that the majority of shounen anime, which are indeed targeted to young males, do appeal to young males, whether the series have a large teenage/adult following as well. I don't hold it against anyone who likes shounen, and the shounen label wouldn't stop me from watching something I was interested in. But really, most shounen anime simply don't hold my interest. I'll enjoy Pokemon from time to time, especially when I'm feeling nostalgic about my youth, but other than that, I don't watch it much.
Don't let the close-minded people who look down on something you enjoy (at least, without reason) piss you off. There's always going to be someone who'll criticize your choices, whether it's the anime you watch or something else entirely. Last edited by Ariake on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Isikari
 Posts: 118 |
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When I think Shounen, DBZ and Naruto come instantly to mind. Now, I enjoy Naruto thoroughly (And wayyy back in the day I enjoyed DBZ a lot and still have a soft spot in my heart for it as it was my first anime), but I know it isn't the epitome of the anime art form.
However, I have to disagree with BrothersElric on this one (Which is a shame because he has such a good name) when it comes to admitting they aren't the 'best' anime. Of course their plot and in many instances character development can't rival that of certain other shows, 'best' is an entirely subjective term. When I was watching DBZ, that was the 'best' anime show I'd ever seen. Admitting that in certain categories they are lacking, absolutely. But otherwise I think if there's a Shonen fanboy out there who thinks DBZ or Naruto is the best show ever, go for it. ~ Isikari |
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The Punisher.
 Posts: 16 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada |
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Kids can watch some shonen, easily, but I've seen a few that I would consider having adult themes. Kenshin and FMA being amoung that group. I don't think a lot of kids could really comprehend the serious discussions they have in Kenshin about morality and repentance.
I think shows like YYH, Naruto, and Bleach are ageless. You can be of any age and enjoy them. They're violent and serious enough for older viewers, and violent with enough humor for younger viewers. Last edited by The Punisher. on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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The reason I tend to pull the "shounen anime was made for children" angle on people isn't so much to be insulting—hell, I get enjoyment out of anime aimed at young girls, so I think doing so would be just a hair hypocritical. But rather, I tend to use it simply to correct those obnoxious sorts who go around insisting that "all anime was made for adults." Hearing people make that claim just irritates the daylights out of me, and these people aren't helping matters by insisting that a show that clearly involves pre-teen ninjas learning lessons about friendship and sharing is in any way "deep" or "mature." So, when I overhear it, I step in and simply lay down a little truth. Better to admit you enjoy a dim children's show than to pretend its mature towards people that can see right through it. That just makes you look like an even bigger fool.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I think a lot of people seem to think that shonen is only for kids after they watch shows such as DBZ and Yugioh, since they were both from Shonen Jump. I personally enjoy shonen titles, they just have to be the ones that can get my attention enough. But shonen is definetly not limited to little kids in Japan. Not when I see middle aged salary men reading Shonen Jump on the trains.
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Isikari
Posts: 118 |
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Nagisa, I have to say I'd really like to run into one of those people, and then thank them profusely because even though they're wrong, it's better than the type I run into all the time. The main problem I see is that most non-anime viewers see the entire genre of anime as cartoons for kids, that particularly weak examples of shounen anime (Because there are definitely some good ones) are all the genre has to offer. ~ Isikari |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Eh, that might be true in Japan, but generally in America the popularity of shounen shows arrives well before even the importable merch does.
Perhaps so, but I've heard other people actually use that line of reasoning as a counter for calls that a certain show shouldn't be edited. For example, when One Piece or Naruto recieved edits, some people say "it's just a kid's show, they can edit whatever they like". Yeah, One Piece was intended for Japanese children, but that doesn't mean that they should butcher it to meet that same audience's requirements in the states.
You aren't talking about Naruto, are you? That show is quite deep and mature. Sure, it's also fun and light hearted in parts, but if you don't see the depth in it too then you clearly aren't watching enough of it. Shows like One Piece and Naruto are certainly MUCH more mature and deep than plenty of "mature" anime that is basically just the same thing with more blood, an introspective mind-trip at the end, and maybe some rape scenes for good measure. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I only saw the first few volumes of Naruto, but it felt like it was really aimed at a younger audience as does anything that is published in Jump. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing since I enjoyed Kenshin, City Hunter and a couple of other Shonen Jump titles. It just feels like it deals with many topics that are more pertinent towards teens. One thing that also bothers me about so many of these SJ titles is that the protagonist is a young teen who has no past and is unusually frequently an orphen. They usually have a mentor type figure and a rival which reminds me of my old school days. Love is frequently a mysterious thing that is never fully realized and friendship is more important. The themes of a series aimed towards adults like Planetes often dwell on unrealized dreams and promises we made to ourselves as children. They dwell on the tragedy of temp workers, and working for corporations complete with lame mascot. Topics like being reverse discriminated for smoking become a central theme for an episode. The disappointment in realizing your childhood heroes are mortal and most likely will die unheroicly in a hospital bed before you make it big really hit home for me. I found the immigrants who went to the moon to pursue their dreams, to only discover that they could barely afford rent with odd jobs sobering. The idea that a memorial would be destroyed for it's lack of commercial value was also well done. Almost all of the characters begin the series with complex pasts and baggage, not to mention relationships that have ended up poorly. Ideas like losing ones passion for their job seem more relevant to me compared to the themes in Shonen Jump titles. |
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