Forum - View topicSeparation of otome fans from fujoshi fandom?
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Keichitsu0305
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Main Question: Why are fujoshi and otome female fans are lumped into the same group?
My opening statement/opinion: First off, what is a fujoshi? It is wordplay on the term "fujoshi" (婦女子): "respectable women" Replace the character 婦 (pronounced fu), meaning "married woman or lady", with the character 腐 (also pronounced fu), meaning "fermented"or "rotten". Originally created by mass media, fujoshi (similar to otaku being used for general anime fans) was later reclaimed by yaoi fans. Therefore, a female engaged in media (anime/manga/games/doujin/shipping) that contains a fictionalized view of maleXmale relationships (sometimes femaleXfemale as well; less commonly known as yujioshi) with little to no connection to real-life homosexual issues makes the female in question "a rotten woman." (Such as myself.) A fudanshi (腐男子) "rotten man" is, in short, the male to a fujoshi. Second, what is an otome fan? Otome ( 乙女) "maiden" is simply a female anime fan. More specifically, a female fan who either plays otome games (dating sims which are the Spear Counterpart to Bishoujo dating sims) and/or female fans who engages in media that contains fictionalized views of heterosexual relationships with little to no connection to real-life heterosexual issues. Third, what's the problem? Not all female fan are just otome nor fujoshi; casual fans possibly could care less about either fandom. Same goes for shows aimed for their respective audiences. Male harems & Shoujo/Shounen romances maybe enjoyed more by otome fans while Boy Love/Yaoi and other media with lots of male characters might be enjoyed more by fujoshi. However, shows that otome might enjoy are falsely called "fujoshi shows" simply because the cast is largely male. While some fujoshi might watch the series for shipping/curiousity/etc., that does not automatically means that the show was just for fujoshi. Obviously, most otome fans take issue with this (many might even resent the BL fandom for whatever reason) so, of course, there might be a backlash. As a fujoshi, I watch all kinds of shows not just for shipping but for the story/characters/art/animation/humor/drama/etc. So, to be put down by other fandoms (inculding the otome fangirl) leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth. I will simply ask, why all the hate? Last edited by Keichitsu0305 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24528 |
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Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be a rather motherhood and apple pie issue, isn't it? Do anime fans make sweeping generalizations of other fans based on what those fans watch? Yeah. Should they do this? No.
... Is there anything left to discuss? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, I'm genuinely unclear as to what avenue this discussion can take beyond stuff like, "Yeah, I hate it when peeps assume I'm a pedo just 'coz I watch shows with lolis in them!" for example. |
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SereneChaos
 Posts: 384 Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA |
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Everything, from elements to animals to music, gets categorized and generalized because that's the easiest way to make sense of and keep track of it. There's simply so much stuff in the world that humans would get lost in it all if we didn't categorize it. It's a hell of a lot easier to find a movie I might want to watch if the movies are categorized by genre rather than if they were just in alphabetical order. It's natural that we would also categorize humans. There's nothing wrong with generalizing about people in and of itself. The problem only arises when these categorizations are used to judge someone. Calling a woman who likes BL a fujoshi is fine, but thinking they must only read "gay porn" and have awful tastes because they're a fujoshi isn't okay.
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Keichitsu0305
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No I understand. I should have made a topic that was easier for rebuttals. Since there really isn't much else to discuss, should I just delete this myself? |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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If you would rather get into the specifics of fujoshi and otome fans being lumped together, my perspective is that you've got two groups that are small niches even comparatively to anime fandom as a whole who tend to overlap in their preferred entertainment media. Add on top of that most other fans aren't interested enough in the subject matter enough to distinguish what might actually be broad differences. (I mean, I've gotten into arguments with people who thought the Higurashi games were porn because the were visual novels). When one isn't familiar enough with two similar items to distinguish them, it's practically sensible to lump them together.
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Keichitsu0305
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Is it possible to change the name of the topic? I'll rewrite my Opening Statement to focus on my original topic (which, I can make a stronger argument for). |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5184 |
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Since you are the Original Poster, you can change the subject name by typing something in the Subject Line. You may also find this thread to be of interest.
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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Really? From my experience the vast majority of girls simply like BL. Don't the reverse-harem-otome animes often have BL fanservice as well? I'm asking because I haven't watched much of them, but just looking at the art and the merchandise I kinda get that impression. F.ex. have UtaPri or Hakuoki really been made into bestsellers by female viewers who dislike BL? |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Oh cool! I didn't know there was a name for us!
Otome all da way! Fujoshi=annoy me. But normally only when they spend all their time hating on female characters and shipping yaoi couples that are nothing but molestation and abuse. >_> Or shipping yaoi couples that don't even have subtext.
Short answer: yes, they do. Unlike harem anime, the girl NORMALLY ends up with only one boy in the reverse harem. And it should be noted that not all the members of the girl's male harem want her;they are simply there to please the viewers. So fangirls will pair the other male characters together, either because they DO show hints of wanting each other or because the heroine is already 'taken'. Or they just plain don't like her. Which is the case for Fushigi Yuugi. |
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Keichitsu0305
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"Female otaku" didn't have a nice ring to it. 
I see you're referring to the "hardcore" BL fans; they are the most vocal of the fandom so, naturally, most people think all fujoshi act that way. Personally, I don't display any of these traits (especially the abusive shipping) since I prefer consent over heavily controversial kinkiness. Unless it's plot related and not just "molest for the sake of molest", I try my best to avoid those type of manga/games; they simply don't appeal to my taste. Usually, fans (esp. younger ones) who conduct in such an over the top, "look at me while I read naughty yaoi" manner simply don't know any better I'm afraid to say. I've been to conventions and talked with fujoshi's and usually they're fun to talk too about general stuff. The occasional fan-squeal happens of course. >///>
From the...four male harem anime that I've seen, yes. Odds are there will be BL fans casually watching a male harem for the main couple and will take notice of the fanservice in the background. Ouran HSHC does such an excellent parody of this that it becomes easy for anyone to watch in awe~ But, I argue that the focus is still on the main hetero couple and the BL fanservice is but mere decoration; a tossing of the bone to BL fans. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13246 |
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Well, that's probably the bigger issue. Do we really need to distinguish that said fan is female? Can't the word "otaku" just be used to refer to some one who likes anime, be they male, female, or anything in between? |
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2634 |
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I am a female anime fan, I don't consider myself fujoshi or otome.
I am not into reverse harems but there are some exceptions I don't seek out Yaoi but I am not against it either (although I dislike the seme/uke concept) I just like a well written series with great characters male or female. Although I admit if I have one anime guilty pleasure it's watching series based on seiyuu (mainly male but there are some female seiyuu I adore too). Probably not the best way to find quality anime but I have discovered some gems this way. |
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mjack_15980
 Posts: 151 |
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to avoid these two groups, you would have to stay away from anything with romance as a theme or genre, which is still quite hard these days. im a guy, and i would only seek ones with hetrosexual realationships. I would definitly have to fall into one of these groups, mostly because i enjoy watching animes with comedy and romance as the main themes (such as CLANNAD)
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Keichitsu0305
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Is it necessary to distinguish male from female? Yes and no. Yes because there are male otakus who simply refuse to watch/read any material that contains "feminine characteristics" so they are more likely to completely separate themselves from otome/fujoshi/female casual fans/otaku. Also, I'm sure there are plenty female viewers who identify with neither otome nor fujoshi, calling themselves either otaku (obsessive fan) or a casual fan (watch/read Japanese Pop Culture occasionally but not completely "dedicated"). For example:
No because, as stated before, otaku/casual fans are gender neutral terms for a person who is a fan of practically anything. But even among general anime fans you still have separated fandoms: hentai fans, mecha fans, idol fans, Subs/Dubs/Both fans, sports fans, magical girl fans, cooking fans, etc. The purpose of "labeling" and "separating" romance fans with the terms "otome" and "fujoshi" is because they are truly not the same. Most of the time, one side simply can't stand the other (varies on forums and in real-life situations). Plus, there are otakus/casual fans who have blurred the line the exists between them. Are there casual otome fans/casual fujoshi who also watch other, non-romantic shows? Yes. Can a fan of Wallflower & La Corda d'Oro also enjoy reading manga by Hinako Takanaga? Yes. But not everyone is like this. Some otome refuse to watch BL/GL and some fujoshi might only watch any non-BL/GL shows just for the sake of ship. Thus, a line is created between these two female-dominated fandoms so that both male AND female otaku/casual fans who, personally, identify with neither (or have more elements of one side then the other) can clearly tell the difference. Which is why whenever a new series with lots of male/bishonen characters (or two males with a very close bond) shows up, and a few people will ask, "Is this for fujoshi?", otome fans will be irritated (more so than fujoshi). |
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dragon695
 Posts: 1377 Location: Clemson, SC |
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[quote="Keichitsu0305"]
Surprising, since most of these milquetoast harem leads tend to act extremely effeminate. |
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