Forum - View topic

NEWS: Police Arrest Please Tell Me! Galko-chan Creator Kenya Suzuki for Importing Child Porn

but japan as far as i know is supposed to be an progressive first world country. and it's ought to start acting like it

Quote:

Yeah. Sure. I am also an artist and I strongly disagree with what you're saying. YES, drawing from real life does make you a better artist but that doesn't mean everyone who draws kids in manga sits around drawing from photos or models of naked kids. =_= There are anime figures you could look at, there are other manga artists you could look at. There are Renaissance paintings of cherubs you could look at. And don't forget real people who simply look young or like kids. Heck, my favorite mangaka Arina Tanemura used a 19-year-old female model to base her 12-year-old character on. You can't just go "I'm an artist and I can tell people draw from CP; Proof? Just trust me, bruh." No.

Oh, that’s good, except I said nothing of the sort.

I actually said this:

Quote:

Most artist references aren't nudes and you don't have to draw from nudes to get a pose right. It depends. When it comes to kids, I've never had to draw from nudes because I don't draw naked kids. Those who do draw naked kids, plus kids in many potentially sexualize angles, WILL. Don't kid yourself.

Let me bold that part for emphasis to make my point clearer.

I’ve drawn plenty of kids. I’ve practiced drawing them by looking at stock photos and videos. That isn’t the kind of artwork I’m talking about.

I’m specifically talking about explicit lolicon content. Drawing porn is one of the toughest imagery for artists to master. Not only do you have to master anatomy, but you also have to master contorting the body in ways that it looks convincing to the eye(extremely difficult), be able to draw from various perspectives of the human body while doing so, and depict various characters convincingly physically interacting with one another. It a skill that requires a lot of practice to get right and that practice includes drawing from the real thing. People who aren’t artists, assume artists are drawing these images from their heads. That isn’t the case. I stand by what I said fully. Professional artist use references.

I’ve actually seen a sexually implied anime illustration of a child on a hotdog, and people found the original picture that was used as the reference, which was a real kid on pony toy. The people who divorce lolicon imagery from reality because it “stylized” have no idea what they are talking about. Unfortunately, it’s been years since I’ve seen it, so instead I’ll post this example:



Notice how the anime artists used the reference. From the real photo, the artist captures the correct anatomy, the location of the light source, how the light affects the skin, where the shadows fall, and the color values of the girls.

Could the artists have captured all this from imagination? I say no. The only artists who can get away without references are those with a photographic memory, and they are rare. There are professional artists, some from Japan, who have been caught tracing other people's artwork. It not that they couldn't do it, it just because art is harder than it looks. Those detailed artwork of sexualized kids aren’t done from imagination. Lolicon work from past on to 2014-2015, should be considered suspect because of child porn possession not being illegal. I will go further and say vast majority of it should be considered suspect because there are even legal soft CP that can be used as reference. Now do all of these loli artists used reference from an explicit source? No, that isn’t what I’m arguing for. You can find "safe" imagery to do certain work. The issue is, from all the explicit loli content that has been made, you can’t know where it comes from. That uncertainty should cause a pause.

Either way, while manga might not be the blame for Kenya's descent into real child porn, the casual nature of child sexualization in the manga industry helps to normalize such behavior. As any other Mangaka, he would have grown up reading and enjoying manga and expose to this child sexualization that I've unfortunately seen growing up reading manga myself. Any and all sexualization of children, whether it drawn or not, shouldn't be encourage in any way to foster.

And to those who say there is no proof that loli can encourage this behavior, THIS is enough proof for me that it does.

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-man-blames-anime-manga-assault-child-church-closet-1346389
/
Also, the incident of the man in Japan who used a loli hentai about rape as a guide to trick a child into letting him in their apartment.

<snip>

The image you share as proof of your claim is actually proof against it. You'll notice the reference is not exactly the same as the drawings.

Wait wait wait. From Germany? That is the only surprise here. What sort of photobook did he get? Is it one of those FKK (nudist) ones that have become next to impossible to be published due to law changed around 2014? Has to be. Looks it up. I am right! These old books are still legal to own in a way but it is impossible to publish one today. Many reasons for it. One of them is due to the children not being able to legally give consent to take these photos and the other was due to some of them being groomed or outright used to make full-on CP. These books aren´t harmless you all and the law change was due to a politician being busted with tons of CP.

How and why the laws changed:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edathy-Affäre
What exactly changed in the criminal code:
https://www.bilderrampe.de/2015/02/04/welche-fotos-sind-jetzt-noch-erlaubt/

Either way, while manga might not be the blame for Kenya's descent into real child porn, the casual nature of child sexualization in the manga industry helps to normalize such behavior. As any other Mangaka, he would have grown up reading and enjoying manga and expose to this child sexualization that I've unfortunately seen growing up reading manga myself. Any and all sexualization of children, whether it drawn or not, shouldn't be encourage in any way to foster.

And to those who say there is no proof that loli can encourage this behavior, THIS is enough proof for me that it does.

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-man-blames-anime-manga-assault-child-church-closet-1346389/
Also, the incident of the man in Japan who used a loli hentai about rape as a guide to trick a child into letting him in their apartment.

And to those who say there is no proof that loli can encourage this behavior, THIS is enough proof for me that it does.

Having an opinion is not a crime,

Sadly surprised yet not. Many who have a squeaky clean image, against lolis or not use fanservice of the lolis tend to become this outcome. There is a giant thread with screenshots and links of articles of how they were against lolis or show how much higher moral they are end up hurting actual minors. Psychologists have already said fiction =/= reality. I know I have been seeing psychologists at an early age.

For this on the other hand, it's not a county's fault. Rather there is many awful people like this all around the world. Which is a shame because I adored Galko-chan. It was on my top faves.

Wasn't there recently article of a children's mangaka who did something to children recently too?

With how common child sexualization is in manga, it wouldn't surprise me if there is a high percentage of pedophilic mangaka.

"But it's just drawingsss....." my ass.

Kai99 wrote:

With how common child sexualization is in manga, it wouldn't surprise me if there is a high percentage of pedophilic mangaka. "But it's just drawingsss....." my ass.

Absolutely. As manga/anime fans we turn a blind eye to it and say that’s it all fantasy and drawings but when an artist or author consistently depicts a child’s body in a sexual manner, there’s something to it no matter how deep you stick your head in your the sand. The “she’s a 500 year old vampire” excuse doesn’t cut it.

I'm pretty sure there isn't any legal publication in Germany that would be illegal in Japan, normally i would gess it would be the other way round.

The problem with discussions about this kind of news, is hat it quickly becomes a moral argument. People, who were already biased against this kind of art, jump out of their chairs to scream that they were right and use the incident as a way to validate their feelings and preconceptions, while other, who like the art, go and try to control the damage and defend their tastes. There's little to no discussion about the subject at the hand and it's implications, there's just people trying to fight and prove that they have a moral high ground. I don't mind discussing the interactions and effects of sexualization in fictional media, I even think that it's a interesting topic to discuss, however, when you start to claim that this kind of thing has a real life impact bigger and more dangerous than expected or known, than you will need proof to back it up. It's important to this discuss this kind of news and issue, however, it is important always to be careful with how the discussion develops, because at some point it may stray too far from the original point or give birth to things that were not intended.
Like, how censoring or putting a end to loli/shota art would have any positive impact or be seen as a positive solution to this case? How would banning this, stop this kind of people from Japan from importing German magazines?

Ok wait, am I missing something here? So far all that i've seen are claims that he was caught importing older legally published nudist magazines from germany. Legal in germany at the time and legal in the US, but illegal in japan where full nudity is still banned in media.

Edit: While writing this I found out that the very same mags we are talking about here are being sold on Amazon right now!

If I am missing more than just nudist mags then please say so because right now this is sounding like the same kind of fallacious moral panic over anime/manga/games/fiction seen from certain people in the west, and others without the ability to tell fiction and fantasy from reality.. Second only in ridiculousness to the old "fictional *things I don't like* affects reality" nonsense.

Hyperbolic headlines like this only makes things worse for everybody!

The "child porn" apparently just is 80s German nudist magazines.

Wait wait wait. From Germany? That is the only surprise here. What sort of photobook did he get? Is it one of those FKK (nudist) ones that have become next to impossible to be published due to law changed around 2014? Has to be. Looks it up. I am right! These old books are still legal to own in a way but it is impossible to publish one today. Many reasons for it. One of them is due to the children not being able to legally give consent to take these photos and the other was due to some of them being groomed or outright used to make full-on CP. These books aren´t harmless you all and the law change was due to a politician being busted with tons of CP.

How and why the laws changed:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edathy-Affäre
What exactly changed in the criminal code:
https://www.bilderrampe.de/2015/02/04/welche-fotos-sind-jetzt-noch-erlaubt/