Forum - View topicInterview: Animator Henry Thurlow on Judgment and Justice
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v1cious
 Posts: 6229 Location: Houston, TX |
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Seems like a lot of hype for a short. I hope it's as good as he's making it out to be.
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DontmesswithKarma
Posts: 491 |
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I'd love to hear an insiders view of a worker at KyoAni. heard they work completely different to other studios
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CeaseActivity
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It was a really good idea to have a follow-up on that old interview. It stuck in my mind and I wondered where this guy ended up and if he was as unhappy with his working conditions still, good that he's now in a position that works better for him
 His thoughts about animation as a medium and the industry were really interesting.
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DerekTheRed
 Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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Oh snap. I remember talking to this guy in the encyclopedia forum at least a year ago. He was concerned about his uncredited work even then.
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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At first I was a bit apathetic to this interview because I thought it'd lack substance. But we got an animator with a love for the craft who wants to make stuff that'll almost certainly push boundaries in the field (at least how it is hyped) and has a very anti-censorial stance when it comes to art. Plus he sees the merits to animation on both sides of the ocean.
As to the short, I will remain skeptical until I see it, hopefully it'll hit a few of those film festivals and then the general public can get at it. I can feel for his struggle, and hope that he makes a name for himself and shakes the artsy tree. Go get'm! |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I saw some clips of the short on his twitter, and I must say it certianly does have a very unique stile of motion and drawing, and succeeds at being pretty gross and off-putting. I think it's pretty cool. Motion is very unique and it's definitely Thurlow going all-out to express his style.
I agree that there are strengths and weaknesses to the art schools' method of 'figure out your own style'. On one hand, it is good for everyone's stuff to look unique and for people to grow into their styles and make things that only they could, but on the other hand I often find it frustrating because I want to say, "look, can't you just teach me how to draw people with realistic proporitons, and how to do realistic movement?" Giving you the tools to depict what you want to depict with some modicum of realism is not stifling creativity but rather enabling it. Getting teachers to give suggestions on a detailed level about how you can make a drawing or motion look better can be like pulling teeth. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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@Galap
Is that what they really teach at art schools? "Develop your own style?" If so, good thing I didn't go. I made the mistake of taking some online courses a few years ago. The only thing I think I learned was that I was more capable than I thought, I just had to try harder. As for developing my own style, I seem to be able to do that on my own. |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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@ rinmackie
My school did not have a full art department so I can't speak so much for places like dedicated art schools, but I've heard similar things from people I know who have gone to dedicated schools. |
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TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
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I think this all dependent on where you go. Calling something Disney-esque or Animu is incredibly simplistic when you consider how different designs can look within each of these "styles". A competent character design teach (especially the one I had in second year) is going to know the difference between a Disney character design by Gerald Scarfe in Hercules, or Milt Kahl in 'name your film'. While he wasn't well versed in anime, he can look at a design made at Ghibli by Ando and one made at Kyoani and point out the differences and commonalities. Honestly, I think the more esoteric and expensive the art school, the more I've heard spurious claims and ideas about animation and animation art. But to think that "developing your own style" is the scope of even some these schools, it's a little naive I think. The best teachers, I feel, put their pet ideas aside and teach you fundamentals-- even give you pointers if you want to go down the path of emulating a style, but being mindful against slavishly aping it. About the only online art courses that I would consider taking are the ones by Schoolism or Ianimate, personally-- based on who is teaching them, that they are all industry-experienced in film, comics, games and animation, and the strength of the reels/portfolios they produce. |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Oh wow. Well this is interesting. I will be following this very closely. Even if his film isn't actually good, I liked a lot of what Henry was saying, so I'm probably going to try to buy it, or support it in some fashion whenever I can. At the very least, I want to see how gross he's talking about. lol
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GeorgeC
Posts: 795 |
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Oh, I completely agree with this! Most art schools and art teachers are a waste of money... Most schools that have an animation program have lousy or nonexistent life-drawing that don't teach good drawing skills. [I've sadly heard that this extends to even the traditionally renowned schools. I've heard complaints about CalArts -- very expensive, sometimes questionable drawing instruction. You have to have VERY, VERY good skills before you bother to apply... Some applicants are scary good and I wonder why they bother applying there instead of trying to get a foot into the industry first and NOT have to pay $40k for an art school. The industry cares less about degrees and more about skills. Shouldn't have to go bankrupt before you find out you can't get a job, period... Ridiculous!] When I was seriously taking art classes to learn to draw better, I was discouraged by how many art teachers took this approach and they didn't teach you jack! You're supposed to figure it all out on your own... What a load of crap! There was only one guy -- arrogant as he was -- that was a good life-drawing teacher. He was an ex-Disney cleanup artist. I improved tremendously when I took classes through this guy and was inspired to do better and got more out of my cartooning instruction books, too. It was very obvious he had TRADITIONAL instruction or at least picked up on it better from the GOOD instruction books. A lot of 'modern' drawing instruction books are crap! Stuff from the 1930s, 1940s, and early 1950s is better than most of what's published new today. Since the 1960s, art schools in general (in the States) completely dismissed traditional teaching methods in favor of "do your own thing." That might be nice if you're trying to do drawings with no sense of proportion OR consistency but HORRIBLE if you're actually trying to get a job at an animation studio! (And honestly, you STILL have to know how to draw even if you do CG. You'll be more flexible... You still have to understand basics even if you only virtual lighting and camera rigging.) The good news is that recently some of the older art instruction books that actually DO go over the fundamentals (Don Graham, Andrew Loomis) are back in print. It only took 10 years AFTER the traditional feature animation industry in the US collapsed for these books to come back! There's a newer guy, Michael Mattesi, who's published books on Dynamic Force -- basically the kind of drawing you should do for animation and cartooning. It's very much like what I was taught when I was taking figure drawing in Florida. His books are harder to find in-stores so it's off to Amazon.com but at least they're in print. It's NOT about personal styles -- that comes LATER after you learn the rules and how to break them -- it's about knowing basic drawing to create more 3-D, balanced, volumetric drawing that pops off the page whether it's realistic life drawing or stylized. |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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@GeorgeC
Thanks for your advice. Only wish I had known this years ago so I wouldn't have wasted my time and money. As for drawing books, I have most of the How to Draw Manga books from the 90's and early 2000's. I don't know what you would think of their quality, but I think they're better than most of the modern manga instruction books that are out now. (Most of which are published by American artists, it seems.) I also check out some artists on Youtube. So I think your advice is pretty spot on, at least if you want to be a graphic novel/comic creator. But I'm surprised to hear it applies to animation, as well. But then, the American animation scene hasn't been all the great lately, at least in my opinion. |
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noriah
Posts: 23 |
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My school was a for profit school, and rather vocational, so I didn't have the problem of getting an education focused on concept more than realism, but it cost, and I have my gripes.
I think a good art education teaches you fundamentals, realism, and how to follow through with different styles while encouraging conceptual work when appropriate. So basically both conceptual work and realism/depictive work. @rinmackie As far as how to draw manga books go, if you're talking about the books that Digital Manga Distribution released, a decent number of those are good. Since the author of each book varies, the quality varies as well. The perspective one is amazing, and the one on inking/screentones is very technical but valuable if you're interested in using tones in your work (though at the time I read it, the pens the inking section talked about were impossible to find in the US). As far as the rest go, I found it to be hit and miss, but since the authors of these books seem to all have been published mangaka at some point, there is a certain minimum level of quality. But some of them are much better than others by a long shot. For those asking for good art learning resources, here's a quick rundown of stuff I've found useful. Andrew Loomis' Figure Drawing for All Its Worth and basically the rest of the books by Loomis, but I think this is a good one to start with. They're all in print again. Hampton's Figure Drawing: Design and Invention this is my favorite beginner's anatomy book, it's about how to do solid construction while being aware the anatomy changes shape when muscles are active or inactive. Once you copy all the diagrams from this book and feel confident, then I would dig into meatier, more specific anatomy books, like those by: Bridgeman Goldfinger Vilppu - any of his books are gold, especially the anatomy one. Drawing Comics the Marvel Way Sara Simblet How To Draw Manga Volume 29: Putting Things In Perspective Practical guide to technical methods used in common settings. Covers difficult topics like up/down slopes, forked roads, curved roads, and people in environments. Lots of examples. James Gurney. Website, books, articles he does in magazines, all of it is gold. - Color and Light - Painting from the Imagination Animation--- Animator's Survival Kit Directing the Story Cinematic Storytelling Online--- http://www.proko.com/ http://www.ctrlpaint.com/ - good tutorials for digital art http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/ Classes from praticing professionals http://www.11secondclub.com/ Monthly contest, best way to improve once you learn the fundamentals is to animate and listen to critique. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14889 |
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Dwango's Animator Expo should take up Judgment and Justice
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