Forum - View topicThe best vs. favourites.
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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In some topic here there are statements that we should separate things "best" and "favourites". When I was witting my favourites list I noticed that some of them I can't recommend as "the best" and some that I see are masterpieces won't be on that.
Do you have similar feelings? For example Oban Star Racers- I love this show, but I'm aware of the fact that it have some plot holes, graphic may seem strange, but I madly loved it, and even after years I find it interesting. The same thing are all the shows that I watched as a child- Sailor Moon, MKR, DBZ, dr. Slump and the most clear issue- Saint Seiya. Especially that last one could be an icon for this topic- long, boring, poor drawn, but I love, even when Iąm not able to watch more than 10 minutes- it's a kind of "anime comfort food". Next ones- shows that I've watched right on time. When I was watching Guin Saga I was looking for epic story, that I didn't noticed some inconsequential and plot holes. On the other hand there are "that masterpieces" or "Ghibi" films. I know that they are "masterpieces" I give them that 10/10, but just Only yesterday found it's chord in my heart. The other ones are... perfectly correct, but without that "sparkle". |
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Wrathful
 Posts: 372 |
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Yep, I regard Berserk as masterpiece but I'm not sure if I want to recommend it to everybody.
The more old school it seems, the easier it is to recommend it to newbies without classifying them to specific genre like modern animes are. I grew up watching Galaxy Express 999 and Rose of Versailles and I think they can be enjoyed by anyone and I don't even know if there were anything wrong with them to deter the enjoyment. I guess it's just so long ago I don't really know how it went. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Hmm, not entirely. Is it arrogant of me to say that generally the Anime I like is generally the Anime that are good? Oh sure, there is stuff like DBZ, early Bleach, Yu-Gi-Oh! (but not the spin-offs), first three seasons of Digimon, Gundam Wing, et cetera. But while I feel nostalgic towards them all, and watch them even to this day (I download clips of all of them off YouTube, but especially DBZ), they aren't anywhere near my favourites. Probably the closest thing I have to a favourite show that isn't all that good is Elfin Lied, except even with its many flaws I believe it to be a pretty darn good show (I rated it as Excellent by the way). Initial D is a possible candidate, although it too was great. Oh, and as an aside, Only Yesterday is a veritable Masterpiece. It remains with Grave of the Fireflies and Whisper of the Heart one of my most beloved Ghibli films. |
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Boomerang Flash
 Posts: 1021 |
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My general attitude toward products of art gives me a very easy time when it comes to favorites vs. the best: Products of art are nice things--useful and enjoyable--, but they're not suitable for evaluation. Thus, best and favorite are interchangeable for me. If a lot of people find a particular product of art to be their favorite--or what they consider the best--, then that product has some qualities that make it very appealing and lacks many qualities that make it unappealing. Hence, I am likely to find it appealing. Thus, I don't bother to distinguish between the two, and certainly not for top 10 lists that are in fact a list of favorites like the pinned thread in this forum.
This attitude doesn't stop me from writing in a manner that implies some sort of ranking of quality exists, largely because I write those posts to convince others of something, and it sounds more authoritative to use language that implies something is the best rather than merely my favorite. |
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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Of course just masochist like things they find not good, but it's a little and not clear difference between "good show" and "masterpiece".
For example- DBZ that's a good show, but not masterpiece. It lacks in some areas, but it's well constructed martial art series, based on a nice idea. As a "masterpiece" I can define things so complete that we wouldn't change anything in it (And here we have "Lady Oscar") |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I certainly have some shows that I just adore but I can recognize have their flaws (the one I usually point to for this is Fushigi Yuugi, which is very rough in areas because Yuu Watase was just starting out when she wrote it...but despite that I still adore it). Of course, the series I rank as "masterpieces" are also some of my favourites as well but my list of the highest quality anime that I've seen and my actual favourites would probably not be entirely the same.
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I think I might be the only one with this opinion, but I feel that if I consider a show a favorite, it's one of the best shows I've seen; the two are interchangeable for the most part (favorite=best but best=/=favorite). While I understand why people separate the two, that doesn't mean I have get it. Why would you call Fushigi Yugi, for example, a favorite it's not one the best you've seen? Isn't that why it's a favorite? What makes the show a favorite, then, if it's not the best you've seen?
Maybe it's because I'm pretty different from what seems to be most anime fans in that I don't really see anime as art. I see it as mostly entertainment that's artistic in it's storytelling, but not solely art. So while people are picking apart Death Note because of this plot hole here or the off model faces over there, I'm sitting on the edge of my seat because I can't believe Light just killed that guy. I rarely notice those things unless people point them out because I'm way too busy having fun watching the show. I feel that since I don't see those things, it allows me to easily say things like, "Yea, Death Note is one of my favorites, definitely one of the bests". |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Yes and no...
I generally don't find there to be a discrepancy between my favorite anime and the anime I consider to be the best. I just generally enjoy good anime. If something isn't actually that good then I probably don't like it enough to call it the best or a favorite. Although, I would say there is a bit of a difference from the opposite side. I don't necessarily consider every title that's good a favorite. For instance, Paranoia Agent. I can recognize it's merits. I get why others consider it one of the best. I just don't really care for it myself. Of course there's also plenty of stuff that others consider brilliant that I just don't agree is actually good. To me it's neither the best or a favorite. Last edited by ikillchicken on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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I have a similar feelings, but now it's hardly for me to "get" into any kind of show so much that I can just feel, and don't think. I really miss this feeling- last time I felt it after some years of break was "Avatar" and I don't think that anything in a long time can impress me so much. Maybe I've been writing reviews for too long time and I tend to analyse everything in every possible way. (DN -I must give it at least second chance, and try to forget about the stupidity of the idea of heart attack killing immediately)
Er... I don't like FY, but DBZ instead:)
Best- storytelling, way of using music and graphic, lack of plot holes (or at least very little ones), characters that are made to be realistic etc. Favourite- general overview, feelings. usually first connected witch second, but not always. Sometimes series lack on one of those areas, but it have another pros, that make it enjoyable Last edited by EireformContinent on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Niomo
 Posts: 516 |
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I agree. From last season, Ladies vs Butlers! became one of my new favorite shows. It was hilarious, I enjoyed every minute and I was sad to see it go.
But was it good? Nope! It was just funny and rapid fire boob/sex jokes. I'd never call it one of the best I've seen, nor would I recommend it to most people 
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6567 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I hope this doesn't sound to much like a wank...
The question can be put as, should an anime's greatness be judged by subjective measures or by more objective standards? But, who decides what your objective standards are? You do, of course. Therefore, any judgement you make is, ultimately and regardless of what spin you put on it, subjective. So, be honest, and rate anime according to whatever way is meaningful to you, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks. If you think Ladies vs Butlers is hilarious then it may well be a masterpiece. And if Ghibli films don't "sparkle" for you then I don't see how you can rate them as masterpieces. |
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Ausdoerrt
 Posts: 481 |
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There's no "best" and "favourites", there's only "favourites". If you like a show you like it, if you don't you don't, it's that simple. You may "respect" a certain anime/movie for its influence, I guess, but the ratings exist to reflect opinions.
This is kind of funny, actually. Why not form your own opinion about the movies instead of unconditionally accepting others'?
Thing is, so-called "objective standards" can't possibly extend beyond production value, and even that is somewhat subjective. And, production value alone doesn't determine the "greatness" of a work. So, objective standards either don't exist or at lease are fairly irrelevant. |
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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I've watched Ghibi films before I read reviews of any of them and that's my own opinion: appreciate that they are unusual, perfect movies, but they simply don't appeal to me. It's like with a dish: you know it's cooked in a perfect way, from the best quality ingredients, served in a elegant way, but you don't like it at all (and not because you don't like ingredients). In the same time you enjoy the meal that you are aware of it's cons but still like it.
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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I don't see any reason I shouldn't consider my favorite to be the ones that are the best to me. I actually made a bunch of pointless lists of what my favorite manga, anime TV, OVA, and movies were and the 10s were all in a row at the top, the only exception being in my movies category where I gave both Metropolis and Interstella 5555 a 10 but inserted Tokyo Godfathers as my second favorite movie even though I rated it 9 not 10. Not sure why I rated Tokyo Godfathers 9, but I won't change it to 10, maybe because it's mostly just good to watch around Christmas? Sometimes I do seem to like a series more that I admit might not be as good as one below it that I ranked 1 higher, but it's still pretty close.
There's usually a reason I gave a series a rating between 8 and 10, it's not just good, but it has to be able to be called "favored" by me. I don't particularly care if something is considered "the best" by others, if it really is the best, it will pretty much automatically become highly favored. If it's favored, it's a favorite and in order to be favored, it has to be the best to me. They rather all go hand in hand for me. That's not to say that I think everything I favor is meant for everyone, I know my one friend probably would not like Higurashi (even though I gave it a 9) and I'm pretty sure only space opera nerds would really get into Legend of the Galactic Heroes like I did. All the same, I'm sure Bokurano is too depressing for some people and Banana Fish has a tough time finding middle ground between people who like shojo but dislike it for not being shojo enough vs people who hate shojo who might find it a tad too shojo at times (although Banana Fish is honestly one of the few manga series I recommend to everyone anyway, partly because I can't tell if they fall into the "like" category and secondly because everyone needs to know about it). I still mostly end up recommending my 8-10s, just at a certain digression, I think they're the best of the best, for me they are and it's more fun to talk about them because they're my favorites, but I still realize my tastes are sometimes bizarre when it comes to anime and manga. And sometimes I change them over time, I had rated GTO anime a 9 until I read the manga which was actually much better. The manga gets a 9, the anime gets an 8 now. |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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So, if you get a so-called "perfect dish" (whatever that is supposed to encompass, just like "perfect anime/movie") but think it tastes like crap, do you still think it's the best dish you've ever eaten?  Why force some sort of weird "justice" for ratings if it's MEANT to be opinionated, is something I'll never understand. I don't mind rating shows up if you like them, but doing that DESPITE the fact you don't seems completely devoid of logic.
Also, classicalzawa, not to randomly argue opinions on here, but giving the dripping-with-cheese Metropolis a 10 seems like something that needs a revision  Tokyo Godfathers, though, is one of those movies that begs for decimal places in ratings. I think I gave it 9.75 or something when I was reviewing it, haha.
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