Forum - View topicBest Team/Organization Tournament: Post-Mortem
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Group D-25
Voting for: Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children Reason: For doggedly pursuing their goal for centuries, overcoming even the forces of nature that oppose them. Group D-26 Voting for: Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Reason: Guide and arguments. Group D-27 Voting for: Debris Section, Planetes Reason: Guide, clips and arguments convince me they have better teamwork. Group D-28 Voting for: Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Reason: Having never seen the series, I'm guided by the opinion of others. No team is perfect, and this group seems to have more positives than negatives. |
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Beltane70
 Posts: 4020 |
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This round is very easy for me in picking the winners.
Group D-25 Winner: Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children Despite being much more familiar with the Macross Bridge Crew, I decided to vote against them. Just from the clip alone it was easy to tell which group had the better dynamic. Couple that with the all of the centuries and hardships that the Children of Béfort had to endure, it becomes obvious that they deserve to win. Group D-26 Winner: Science Ninja Team Gatchaman Gatchaman Watching Gatchaman in its Battle of the Planets form as a child really left an impression on me that Aswald fails to break. Group D-27 Winner: Debris Section Planetes The Debris Section has everything that a great team needs, skill, dedication, professionalism, teamwork and a strong sense of camaraderie. Group D-28 Winner: Dai-Gurren Brigade Gurren Lagann I think I said this the last time, but for me, it still applies: theDai- Gurren Brigade may have its flaws, but they have an attitude that is unsurpassed by any other team or organization. It's that attitude that makes them the winners in my book. [/b] |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I haven't been paying close attention to this thread until today because of other things I've had going on, but now that I have, I wanted to take a moment to address some comments I've seen come up several times.
The only edge that Aswad has over Gatchaman is that they have a bit more character and background development - but not by much. We get to find out a bit about their motivations and home life, but as secondary players in their series they do not get developed anywhere near to the extent of, say, Debris Section. And while I know that some people are voting as much on team depth as anything here, depth is not the critical factor in determining the merits of a team (at least for me, anyway). That is only really good as a tiebreaker, and Gatchaman equals or beats Aswad in everything else. And I really don't want to give Debris Section such an easy pass into the next round, but apparently no one has arguments to support the opposition? |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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Group D-25
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Macross Bridge Crew, Super Dimension Fortress Macross Children of Befort. I read some of the arguments in this thread, and they just seem like a better choice based on what it seems like they've endured throughout the show. That alone is enough to forge a strong team, provided that they've stuck together the whole time. Group D-26 Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman vs. Aswad, My-Otome Gatchaman. All arguments here seem to support them, and I never thought the My-Otome bunch were really that great of a team anyway. Group D-27 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Bronze Saints, Saint Seiya Debris Section. Don't know much about either of them, so going with the arguments in the thread here. Group D-28 Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann vs. Terrestrial Administration Center (aka TAC), Blue Seed Dai-Gurren Brigade. Don't know much about the other team, but unless they're really really amazing, there's no way I'm not voting for the infectiously enthusiastic Dai-Gurren Brigade. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7360 |
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I like this round, I really do, I actually know most of the teams that are here (and more importantly, most of the ones that seem like they're going to be moving on)
D-25: Children of Befort -sure, they'll have a bit of a hiccup later once their plans change, but even when they weren't on the same note they still had a deep caring for one another and they stuck to their goal for like 5 centuries or something. Aghi is also a good leader, which is key to holding together the structure of their group as they all go through difficult times. I am also familiar with the Macross Bridge Crew (at least from Robotech), and they're great as co-workers, but the Children of Befort are just so much more. D-26: Gatchaman -Ridiculous outfits aside, the clip showed great teamwork on their part and a female member whose job wasn't to just get kidnapped repeatedly at the behest of lame villains only to be rescued later to make the dudes look better. Having a team of competent members is also important! Aswad didn't seem to have it together as much if they were able to be snuck on from behind (failed back attack, but still). D-27: Debris Section -Now, one of my reasons for not voting for the Macross Bridge Crew was because they were basically just co-workers, but the difference here is that the Debris Section really goes beyond mere co-workers to be more like a family. The Bronze Saints are all right, but I'd pick the Debris Section over them any day. D-28: Dai-Gurren Brigade -Not overly familiar with TAC to be honest, but as many others have said, it's going to be tough to beat the Dai-Gurren Brigade. They're good at recruiting more members and having everyone do what they can for the team. They're also quite resilient when hardships come for spoilerific reasons. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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Group D-25
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Macross Bridge Crew, Super Dimension Fortress Macross Children of Béfort. Their dedication to each other far outreaches that of the Macross Bridge Crew, and is well demonstrated throughout the series. Group D-26 Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman vs. Aswad, My-Otome I pretty much watched the entire series trying to find good examples of Aswad's teamwork and came up empty. Their screen time was quite limited, and even though they did have moments of showing the loyalty to each other, and working together to help their village for example, these scenes weren't all that impressive anyway. Gatchaman wins by default. Even though they are painfully cheesy and classic 70's, they are definitely a good team. Group D-27 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Bronze Saints, Saint Seiya Debris Section wins this one. They ultimately have more depth and deal with more personal issues that threaten their status as a team, but overcome it all to improve their cohesiveness and expand what they can accomplish as a team is pressure situations. Group D-28 Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann vs. Terrestrial Administration Center (aka TAC), Blue Seed Even though later in the series the Dai-Gurren Brigade suffers from some serious issues that hurt them as a team, the path they take to free humanity from the scourge of the Beastmen is an impressive showing of what true team work can accomplish. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Group D-25
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Macross Bridge Crew, Super Dimension Fortress Macross Voting for: Children of Befort. The guide entry and several arguments have portrayed them as more united and with a greater sense of purpose than the admittedly nice friendship and working relationships that the Macross Bridge Crew displayed. Group D-26 Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman vs. Aswad, My-Otome Voting for: Science Ninja Team Gatchaman Not a very enthusiastic vote, in truth, but even though I'm not exactly a proponent of making decisions based on a team's lasting influence and relevance to this or that genre, it's hard to deny that Aswad's video clip wasn't too impressive while Gatchaman's does a lot more to highlight them at their best. It does seem that Aswad would have slightly more interesting characters and some development further down the road, going by a few of the arguments, but even after reading a few of the previous posts there's not enough in terms of elaboration. Group D-27 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Bronze Saints, Saint Seiya Voting for: Debris Section The Bronze Saints aren't a bad team and there are certain moments where real cooperation and friendship shine through, but for the most part I never really felt they had much in terms of group dynamic in the long run. The Debris Section, on the other hand, might take some time to grow but the results are more concrete and easier to grasp. Group D-28 Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann vs. Terrestrial Administration Center (aka TAC), Blue Seed Voting for Dai-Gurren Brigade TAC seems alright and would have been an interesting pick any other day of the week, but even though I'm not the biggest fan of the Dai-Gurren Brigade outside of a couple of high profile characters, I can't deny that their teamwork and sheer willpower leads them to great accomplishments. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group D is now closed.
Exact results can be found here, but really there was little contest. For the first time since Round 2b, none of the matches were even close going into the final day, with Gatchaman's 12-5 win being the slimmest margin for victory. The mere 17 votes also continues to be a disappointment. Somehow I don't think the former is going to be a problem this coming week, though - not with a three-way contest at stake, anyway! Power Rankings And now it's time for the first installment of my Power Rankings! As with the last couple of tournaments, these rankings are entirely based on % of possible votes earned through the first three rounds of match-ups. My spreadsheet-fu is not good enough to factor in things like opponent strength, so teams who got by with easy match-ups might have inflated values while strong teams which had to tough out matches may have deflated ones. I'll also add that of the 16 seeds I secretly assigned, 15 of them made it into these 18 survivors, with the only miss being Hotel Moscow (one of the four 4th seeds). Mew Mews, Pumpkin Scissors, and Game Club are the only unseeded who made it through - and two of those are only here because of ties. Of those, the Mew Mews are the biggest surprise for me, as they made it this far despite only three nominations. 1. Straw Hat Pirates, 91.89189 2. Section 9, 88.50575 3. MITHRIL, 86.36364 4. Children of Befort, 85.96491 5. Sailor Scouts, 84.84848 6. Knight Sabers, 77.01149 7. Ouran HS Host Club, 74.24242 8. Debris Section, 71.92982 9. Gekkostate, 71.62162 10. Gatchaman, 70.17544 11. Dai-Gurren Brigade, 70.17544 12. NERV, 70.11494 13. Paper Sisters, 68.96552 14. Mew Mews, 68.18182 15. Parakiss Label, 66.21622 16. Pumpkin Scissors, 64.86486 17. Game Club, 60.91954 18. Band of the Hawk, 53.0303 Next round will be up as soon as I double-check the video links, which should only take a few minutes. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 4 Group A is now closed.
The first of four matches which will decide the Elite Eight and who will face off for the right to make the Final Four. Given the tie at the bottom of the bracket last round, one of these could be very interesting indeed. New video clips can be found on the Guide pages. As before, justifications for your votes are required. Group A-29 Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV Winner: Section 9 Total: 19-2 Group A-30 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise Winner: Game Club Total: 5-6-10 Last edited by Key on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I just got home from work and I get to have FUN! YAY!
Group A-29 Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV Both are strong teams BUT I'm going to go with Section 9 because I do think that they are a stronger team than the Sisters plus previous arguements. Group A-39 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise VOTE CHANGE! NERV for reason detailed in my announcement of vote change post. Last edited by LydiaDianne on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Mini-game results.
Olliff continues to solidify the lead, with now only three other participants having the possibility of besting his score by the end of the tournament. For the most part, few guesses that hadn't already been eliminated were wrong in D-3, although the carryover left the total prediction rate rather low. No surprises this time, predicting winners based on mini-game entries. Wait, I take that back, looking at the wider picture, the Order of Magdalene was the most common pick for D-26, but they were knocked out by Aswad in the first round. Otherwise though, no surprises. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Group A-29
Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV The Paper Sisters have shown themselves to be worthy to be here, but this match won't even be close. Section 9 does not have a significant flaw, and their merits (especially coordinated teamwork) are just too strong. The only argument I could see being made against them is that the tech level of their setting does give them an unfair advantage on the teamwork front, as no other team/org in the tournament shares it. Group A-39 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise This is the more tricky one, and the one more likely to be competitive; it's entirely possible here that the winner won't even have a majority of the votes. I am ruling out Game Club right away because, while they do have their merits, they were not enough to convince me to pick them over the Knight Sabers last round and I haven't seen anything since to change my mind. (Really, despite their passionate supporters, they may be too embattled to have a realistic chance here.) That leaves two from series that I consider favorites, and of those two, I must pick NERV. The Knight Sabers are a highly underrated group both as a standard-setter and as a tight-knit team with a high degree of depth in character development, but NERV is arguably the all-time great Mysterious Organization With Mecha. Key arguments against them - that the lead is unlikable, that they keep too many secrets from each other - fall on deaf ears here. Why? Consider these points: 1. The secrets NERV keeps gives its organization a sense of mystique that no other survivor can match. 2. It sets - and achieves - the kind of arrogantly lofty goals that only the great organizations can pull off; of the remaining competitors, only Dai-Gurren Brigade can match them on this, albeit in a more direct way. 3. As shown in this clip, despite some personality conflicts its members come together in times of crisis to demonstrate a very high degree of teamwork - both support personnel and mecha pilots. 4. That Shinji is unlikable is mostly irrelevant. This is about the entire organization and how good they are as an organization, not whether characters are likable or not. I'd hope that no one is deciding against them only on that basis. 5. Those who want depth and character development will not find a stronger team/org left in the tournament on that front - and given who all is left, that's saying something. There may be more arguments later, and I challenge Game Club supporters to provide stronger points. |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Those power ratings are always interesting to look at. They may not take into account differences in opponent strength, but I think it is interesting to note that Section 9 does not have the highest power rating. I still think they are the favorite to win, but anything can still happen. I was also a little surprised with Parakiss Label's performance since that team comes from a very niche and semi-obscure series.
Group A-29 Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV Section 9 is not the favorite to win this competition for no reason. They have some of the most coordinated teamwork in this tournament, and they have the depth and development to back it up. Each member has a specialty and there's a strong feeling that each member while competent in their own right still heavily depends on the team to succeed. Group A-39 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise This match will be very close, but I will still give the edge to the Knight Sabers for being the more consistent of the two and the one with the more influence. While the Game Club is a fairly original team, the Knight Sabers are a classic and they have left their mark on the sentai genre. The team's structure can still still be seen today in many shows, and their suits paved the way for another series that could also be considered a classic. The Game Club has their merits, but the evidence of teamwork presented in the first season while present forces the viewer to believe a rationale that seems very difficult to believe. The Game Club's reaction to spoiler[ Rena's murderous rampage near the end of the first season is a good example of this. While it could be argued that forgiving a murderer shows strong friendship, this scene was personally just too difficult to believe. ] More believable acts of teamwork appear in the second season, but I consider this a weakness if you have to watch a second season to see a team shine. I can see a the strength of seeing a team grow stronger with time, but when it takes over a season to do, that's just too much. Sure, the Game Club overcomes insane obstacles, but it just seems a little hard to believe even for anime standards. Knight Sabers may have their borderline hokey moments, but this really only reveals the show's age, and for the most part even with it's cheesiness it still seems more believable if you consider the setting. Both teams are solid, but since both teams have teamwork down a tee, I will vote for the team that acts like a team for a greater portion of the series, and the one that also has more influence on its genre. Well, I forgot to mention NERV, but with the number of weaknesses mentioned in the previous rounds combined with the fact that they keep so many secrets from each other, I doubt they have a chance to win here. Last edited by Olliff on Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:53 am; edited 2 times in total |
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guet
 Posts: 492 Location: Sparta |
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I guess I'll vote this round since I actually know all the teams this time. The few rounds I've skipped I've known less than half. I don't know if this is the reason for the low turnouts, but it's my reason at least.
Group A-29 Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV Voting for: Section 9 Reason: I've never found the paper sisters to be all that outstanding of a team, solid but a bit generic in my opinion. At this stage of the game it takes something special to move on, and Section 9 has it. They are arguably the most effective, enjoyable to watch, and all around talented team remaining. Group A-39 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise Voting for: The Game Club Reason: NERV does have it's moments (both good and bad). The Knight Sabers remain a classic and influental team. Still, neither one have enough positives to cause me to vote against the team of kids that live in a nightmare world that can only be changed by putting aside past issues and working together to fight against fate itself. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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I have a feeling that this round will have a much higher turnout.
Group A-29 Section 9, Ghost in the Shell franchise vs. Paper Sisters, R.O.D. TV Voting for: Section 9 Reason: It's going to very difficult to make me vote for another team over Section. The level of coordination in which they execute their teamwork seems unbeatable. They are also a likable bunch of people. I also don't feel it is fair to say that they have an unfair advantage due to their setting, but then again it is hard to make arguments against such a powerful team. Group A-39 NERV, Neon Genesis Evangelion vs. Knight Sabers, Bubblegum Crisis franchise vs. Game Club, When They Cry/Higurashi no Naku Koroni franchise Voting for: Knight Sabers Reason: NERV manages to succeed despite the fact that the organization keeps secrets from each other. They do accomplish much, but with a betrayal and their overall secretive nature I can't vote for them. The Game Club beats some of the most absurd levels of opposition imaginable, but the fact it takes them such a long time to reach the status as a solid team is too fatal of a flaw. The melodrama of the series also makes the team seem more contrived, which is a minus for me. The lack of solid teamwork of the Game Club can be attributed to something outside of their control, but the fact remains no solid teamwork appears until the second season and that's just too long of a time for a time to prove themselves. No one is discounting that they did a lot of good in the second season and that's why that made it this far, but to me they just too long to shine. Both of these teams show great demonstrations of teamwork, but this can also be found in the Knight Sabers with none of the above mentioned flaws. The Knight Sabers' leader does make one major mistake, but the team is able to learn from it and improve directly because of it. Overall, they are a solid and underrated team that more people should check out. |
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