Forum - View topicCoolest Character Tournament - Post-Mortem
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Okay going to keep this brief since I already missed last week's votes, and I came close to missing my chance again. To make a long story, a serious situation involving my work and a legal issue came up, and unfortunately and understandably this forum hasn't been the priority it was for me in the past. My focus is still elsewhere so forgive me if I ramble on.
Group A-29 Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Guts, Berserk Pardon the bad pun, but I will go with my gut and give the slight advantage to Guts. Both characters are mainly in the badass vein and Guts has more of the complete package while fry face has more presence than anything else. Guts is also the more imperfect character, which makes him cooler since his struggle is more sympathetic. Sometimes Balalaika is too perfect for her own good, and it seems like nothing can stop her because the story would rather tell you that she's so awesome than prove. I also feel that Guts has more depth, and more intrigue to his character that just a fierce and cool as ice presence. Group A-30 Claire Stanfield, Baccano! vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo Mugen hands down. Claire has an amazing presence like Balalaika, but has little else to offer. Mugen is top of the line when it comes to cool. He's an aversive to authority, he has an attitude, he's dynamic, and his mood and style define the whole series. Sure he's not universally well-liked or a charmer, but he's his brand of cool even if he isn't refined or graceful unless you are talking about his swordsmanship. |
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~~EpiC~~
 Posts: 243 |
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Fair enough, you got me there. On the plus side it is still fun picking at people. Though, I am cool with most of the last few votes.
You know, this reminds me of your vote with Reinhard vs. November 11, except here, you totally decide to just flip it. You said that being naive and a couple of other things were huge negative points in a coolness tournament and was ultimately why you voted against Reinhard. It doesn't seem to make sense that it is totally okay in this situation, but not in the other. The development Guts gets should be subtracting heavily for him here, especially according to the criteria you yourself stated earlier in this thread. November 11 is definitely less developed then Balalaika, so why is that a problem here? (though quite frankly, Balalaika shouldn't be suffering from this because she gets a pretty large deal of development) Also, as mentioned before, Balalaika is not that perfect. She is stuck in a crime war she can not win (or lose). She nearly dies fighting Mr. Chang. She loses men she has worked with for years to killers and the pull of corruption. The story only mentions that Balalaika shouldn't be crossed. You are wrong when you say the story doesn't show her badassary. Quite the contrary, almost every scene with Balalaika proves that she is badass without others saying it. I don't see how you came to this conclusion, at all. Also, she has her sympathetic, tragic hero side as well. spoiler[ she was discharged from the military because she saved enemy child refugees]. I can't see how this is less awesome than a guy that kills indiscriminately, often for less reason than Balalaika. EDIT: Crap, edited a bunch of times because I somehow keep messing up the tags. Time to use preview. Last edited by ~~EpiC~~ on Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Because the qualifications determining the victor change from bracket to bracket, and in this one her opponent is favored? I'm sorry if that comes across a little rude, but for the entirety of the tournament, I've been frustrated that a compromise for those who have wanted a badass tournament for years was proposed with practically no opportunity for our input, and this sentiment that in the badass bracket only badassery should matter feels like you're trying to prove that we still got what we wanted. P.S. I've got stuff going on tomorrow, so don't expect mini-game results until Wednesday evening (Eastern Time). |
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Olliff
Posts: 550 |
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Perhaps you are right Epic. I have had a lot on my mind recently, and perhaps I did Guts the pass when he didn't deserve it.
However, I am still on the fence. I think the biggest difference here is that Reinhard acts uncool and borders on neurosis. Guts even in his weakest moments is never a coward or wuss or anything close to the opposite of a badass. Sure, Guts isn't a big success and isn't a deep character, but I have two distinct criteria for badass and cool. Sure I suppose I can fault Guts for not being cool, as Balalaika, even though he is more badass, but that's a tough call. I think the best approach in a tournament is to consider both coolness and badassery when you assess a character. I actually had to rate character twice and create averages long when I created my brackets. I think the mini-game scores are low because of the mix of these two elements combined with the fact that criteria is vague and weaknesses have seemed to play a larger role than strengths. Of course, I also weigh in other factors such as series popularity, overall amount of respect anime fans have for the series, along with some adjustments made for shows that are popular among regular fans on this thread and not necessarily anime fans as a whole, and a small category I call first impression where I go with my gut. I actually spend about a little over an hour and a half each tournament making my bracket. The majority of the time is spent researching shows and characters that I am unfamiliar. I also tend make my bracket conservative, but I do allow for upsets when I believe that a solid argument can be made, or I know someone else will make one in my stead. Call it weird, but I enjoy it. 
I also agree that separating out the tournament was a mistake. I think we could have a enough participants for a separate badass and cool tournaments even we had to stretch a bit. I think the conflicting sub-categories will likely lead to and has led to disillusionment and disappointment in those who find their criteria doesn't align with the masses. Heck, I even felt that DS deserved to go farther than he did, his defeat was an upset and I was surprised it happened so early on. If I was around for the nominations phase, I would have been against it, but I was not. Last edited by Olliff on Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 4 Group A is closed.
And that's probably for the best, since people (including me) are getting rather testy. Anyway, with 18 votes in, the results: A-29: Guts barely pulls it out over Balalaika, 10-8. A-30: Mugen handily smacks down Claire, 13-5. And let's be clear that Guts only won because he took the final three votes. At the time ~~Epic~~ made the comment I replied to earlier, Balalaika and Guts were actually tied. Besides, those that made arguments against Guts will have a chance to get rid of him next round by supporting Mugen, who I thought was borderline Final Four material anyway. To address some other concerns: Dorcas_Aurelia, if you're talking about mixing the Bad-Ass component in the Cool Character concept, people had plenty of opportunity to register input on that. If you're referring to making a Bad-Ass-specific bracket, I did ask for opinions on that at the time I proposed doing it but didn't see much objection to it. But clearly varying the focus of each Group is a problem, since many voters are either complaining about it or not heeding it (or both), so it's time for me to declare that a failed experiment. Effective with the upcoming Group I will no longer put labels on the Groups based on type and will make no expectations that people keep the Group theme in mind when voting. And next time (and there will, I think, be one more time before I take another prolonged break), we will definitely be using a more clearly-cut theme. Best Rivals is sounding better and better. . . One other thing: if people truly think that the tournament as a whole is a broken concept because of the cool/bad-ass conflict, then register your opinions during voting for next round. If enough respondents register a negative opinion then I'll just end the whole thing after we finish Round 4 by doing a final week with a "rank the remaining eight participants" approach. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 4 Group B is now closed.
Results can be found here. Two interesting matches here, especially the second one. I have no idea how to call that one since I think all of them deserve to move on. The fun will be in sorting that out. Group B-29 Captain Harlock, various (see Guide entry) vs. Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Group B-30 Lady Eboshi, Princess Mononoke vs. Revy, Black Lagoon vs. Kenshiro, Fist of the North Star Last edited by Key on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18584 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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No delay this time. Although I love my bad-asses, as ultimate cool characters I tend to favors ones which exude equal measures of competence and confidence and handle themselves with grace. That figures prominently into both of my votes here.
Group B-29 Captain Harlock, various (see Guide entry) vs. Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Harlock has plenty of cool and bad-ass chops, but Balsa gets the edge here for the reasons stated above. Even when struck down she seems strong and in control. Group B-30 Lady Eboshi, Princess Mononoke vs. Revy, Black Lagoon vs. Kenshiro, Fist of the North Star I like all of these character, but going by the principles I stated above I give the slight edge to Lady Eboshi. When looked at relative to her title's setting, what she accomplishes, and the way she does it, is even more impressive than Revy's bloodthirstiness and fancy moves or Kenshiro's killer martial artis. Both of those are attuned well to their settings, but Eboshi bucks every principle of hers to succeed at what she does. That, in my mind, ultimately is the winning argument here. |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Group B-29
Captain Harlock, various (see Guide entry) vs. Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Pick: Balsa I haven't seen any of Captain Harlock, and on top of that Balsa was one of my top picks from the very beginning, but in the spirit of fairness I read up on Captain Harlock and watched his clips. He actually seems like a pretty cool guy with flair up my alley, and if he wasn't up against Balsa I probably would've voted for him. But tough cookies, he got one of the strongest opponents in the entire history of anime. Many characters in this tournament have finesse or style, but what Balsa has goes beyond that. She moves with a grace only achieved from a rare combination of raw talent and years of intense training. She reminds me of a tiger: fierce, calculating, beautiful, deadly, but silent with movements as smooth as a swan. Group B-30 Lady Eboshi, Princess Mononoke vs. Revy, Black Lagoon vs. Kenshiro, Fist of the North Star Pick: Lady Eboshi This almost broke my heart. These 3 all against each other? How much I would pay to actually SEE that! There's no doubt in my mind that, out of these 3, Lady Eboshi should definitely win, but this is the hardest match-up to date. The thing that jumped out to me about Lady Eboshi the first time I saw Princess Mononoke was that she didn't short-change herself with low goals; she's out to rule the world, freely admits it, and after 10 mins of her on screen I'm fully convinced that she not only can but will. She's ruthless but her people love her, and will follow her into battle even against the gods! Even the men respect and defer to her, not only as a leader but a also as a fighter. She's ahead of her time, envisioning and creating a town where men and women both work and are treated equally. She doesn't let herself be bogged down by the fears and customs of her era, going out of her way to hire all the women working in local brothels and taking in lepers, not to mention personally tending to them. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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Group B-29
Captain Harlock, various (see Guide entry) vs. Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Unfortunately, Im not familiar with either character- so I paid extra attention to the clips and all sorts of other information I could find. It's not going to be a vote against Harlock, since both characters share intelligence, skill, etc but Balsa's clips left me in awe. Harlock seems like quite a static character, while Balsa is so active, strong. She combines intelligence with physical skills. Besides, a woman in one of the most female-unfriendly professions doing so great, really inspiring. Group B-30 Lady Eboshi, Princess Mononoke vs. Revy, Black Lagoon vs. Kenshiro, Fist of the North Star Lady Eboshi- Revy definitely deserved to get so far, but as some people pointed out in previous rounds, she has her moments when she looses it. I voted against Kenshiro in the last round, and Ill do the same again. Im not saying he is not cool, but how many times can you hear to "You're dead" with a slight variation to "You will be dead in 30 seconds". I find Lady Eboshi's wit and courage more appealing than Kenshiro's smooth movements. She is prepared to challenge everyone, including the emperor or gods. And she fights alongside her men (you have to appreciate how well she picks her targets as well). The few faults she has actually do not stand on her way to coolness- she is self-confident bordering on arrogant for the sake of the people she protects. She has enough charisma to share with all the other characters in the film and there would still be plenty left. Finally, she never, ever looses her spirits- even despite the outcome of her final fight with the wolf goddess... |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group B-29
Captain Harlock, various (see Guide entry) vs. Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit I have voted this entire time for Balsa and that is not going to change. Harlock is good but Balsa is just that much better. Group B-30 Lady Eboshi, Princess Mononoke vs. Revy, Black Lagoon vs. Kenshiro, Fist of the North Star Because of previous arguments...Lady Eboshi I like the fact that she took people, mostly women, who were considered outcasts and showed them that they can be strong, self-suffient people. Last edited by LydiaDianne on Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Minigame results.
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mascthemoney
 Posts: 6 |
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you should do a "moe character tournament"
dedicate a poll entirely for moe, please. |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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There already has been a moe tournament, if I remember correctly. |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Best Rivals would be an awesome tournament!!!! How would you do it though? Would we vote for a single character, say like Vegeta? Or would it be a pair, like Light vs L? And would it only be limited to rivals of the main character, or would rivals of supporting characters be allowed in, and would the main characters themselves be allowed in the tournament since they themselves are often rivals to another main character? I am very excited for that tournament, I hope it happens!
I don't think the tournament was ruined by the mixing of the cool and bad-ass characters. Many of them were both to begin with, and the two categories are very closely related anyway. Doing a final week of rating the surviving characters isn't a bad plan, but I really like the idea of there being individual character dueling, fighting for supremacy =). I don't think the cool/bad-ass conflict is that big of a deal, we just all get sour grapes when our favorite characters lose in the earlier rounds (like Lupin and Onizuka!)  .
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Tris8 When I proposed the best rivals/adversaries I thought about pairs like L vs Light or Johan vs Tenma. If you want a bit more information read this thread
I didn't vote in group A, because I didn't feel strongly about any of the characters and even before it was a group that I was least interested in. This time I'm going to vote, but I have to think a bit, because Group B-29 is evil. If I could, I would make both Balsa and Harlock finalists. |
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