Forum - View topicSky Crawlers; I Didn't Get it, Did You?
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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First of all, if you haven't read this review of it then please do so. Also please note that I will be leaving mild spoilers untagged, as there is an assumption that if people are reading this then they. have seen the movie
Okay, Sky Crawlers. I read Justin's review before watching it, and so I did know what I was getting into. I sort of knew what to look for, I just couldn't find much of anything. What I am referring to are the themes, the message of the movie. Which, as Justin points out, is only superficially related to war and consumerism, and only tangentially related to the malaise of Japanese youth. Director Mamoru Oshii intended for the movie to communicate with fans (specifically Otaku) and an industry he sees as a "dead creative environment". At least, that is Justin's interpretation, although he words it so strong as to make me wonder what I'm missing. I did see a couple of symbols that would fit Justin's interpretation. The Kildren represent those fans who refuse to grow up, who refuse to try new things even after they are reincarnated (at least, in the movie, hah hah). The tourists represent loud but friendly American fans, who are interested in Japan and Anime but maybe don't know much about the culture. The "Teacher", who is on the other side and an adult, is hard to read. I think he would be the spirit of creativity, the embodiment of wisdom. Always unattainable and undefeatable, the characters who break out of their malaise and challenge him end up dead. But I have no clue about the rest, and I was looking throughout the entire movie. It sure moved slow enough to let me do that, hah. So what I want to know is, what did you see in the movie? Did you see the same things as Justin, or did the thought that the movie could be anything more than a dull anti-war film never cross your mind? Don't be shy; I'd be the first to admit that if I hadn't read that review before watching it I would have thought exactly that way. So yeah, what was your experience with this film? Last edited by dtm42 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I observe a repeating and bleak love story: spoiler[reincarnations of two characters perpetually undergo their cycle of drudgery and hopelessness, the only recourse for each iteration of whom being death and subsequent replacement — replacement by someone in no different a scenario to their own].
The Teacher may provide one of two roles: either this character acts as a means for individual Kildren to escape their misery spoiler[through death], which renders his or her role somewhat inadequate, or else the character bears a power to bring about change of a more permanent but less tangible sort. Whilst I concur with Justin's contention that the film depicts an endless state of woe in dire want of alteration, I remain unconvinced that it was made to resemble anime and its consumption. One presumes there exist a great variety of real trends besides this to which this film could justifiably be compared. Justin himself cites Oshii's own intentions when supporting the link between the film and certain antisocial traits — a notion which perhaps holds greater exclusive support than anything anime-related by way of the unchanging bodily age of the Kildren. Nevertheless, the procedure of identifying the film's metaphorical content is not a task I consider necessary for optimum enjoyment of the film. The Sky Crawlers is as delicate as I had hoped, whilst also containing the unexpected benefit of a modest amount of emotional content. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Hmm. I didn't really feel the emotional impact, and the movie is very slow going, so naturally I was interested in what message the movie was trying to convey. A lot of money was spent on it, and it has to be deliberate. There has to be a deeper meaning. Justin thought he had found it - thought it was obvious in fact, to anyone who knew the Anime industry fairly well - but I just can't see what the point of the film was. And naturally, that makes me curious as to whether anyone else did, and just generally, what people took away from the film. |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I was quite taken by spoiler[the scene in which the central couple embraced each other in a car, wherein we see that Suito hesitantly desires to kill Yuichi through mercy.] The same could be said of the film's climax, in which a conflict between similar passions is resolved.
Whilst the cast were characteristically reserved and introverted, they did expose their feelings on occasions. Due to the contrast this makes with their usual demeanour, one found such moments to be the most memorable. |
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doubleO7
 Posts: 1071 |
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Sky Crawlers was ok, but I didn't really like it. It looked pretty, and the animation was amazing, but I found it to be slow and kinda boring. I'm not saying it was a bad movie, but it was far too slow for my tastes. Sky Crawlers was just 2 dull hours of my life I could've spent watching something else.
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3947 Location: New York state. |
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A response to the cynicism of the otaku culture? I'd say it was more in response to the cynicism of the entertainment industry pulling moral extremes for the sake of ratings.
The way I viewed the film: spoiler[It seemed Sky Crawlers took place in a world where there was no war and international conflict. So fighting has taken on a form of entertainment for the masses with the Kildern actually being mass-produced clones of the original pilots that started up these fights and continue to be used for entertainment. Because of having to repeatedly see the same person die again and again for the sake of entertainment, those involved with the Kildern become emotionally detached from the situation to become better accepting of the circumstances. To me, Suito was holding back any feelings of affection she had for Yuichi because she was desensitized from having seen her interest be killed again and again. It's like Ooshi wanted one to think if violence became acceptable to use for real-life entertainment by treating human lives as fodder just for corporations to rake in profits, how does one involved with the industry feel if they have any form of emotional attachments to those regularly treated as fodder and expected to kill themselves just for the sake of entertainment?] |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I agree mostly with what Ggultra2764 had to say about the message of the movie, but I'd take it a bit farther. My disagreement with Ggultra2764's statement is in the line "if violence became acceptable to use for real-life entertainment". To me the film was actually saying that violence already has become a form of entertainment and it's showing the effects that it's had on our society. Sky Crawlers is simply showing a dramatized version of our current super violent tv shows and movies. Saying that you society has become desensitized toward the human aspect. We have become a race that lives vicariously through the tv screen and because of that violence has become a daily routine that doesn't have a meaning anymore. It's no longer a shocking occurrence, it's now just something that happens.
Also it's showing that this desensitization leads to a constant circle of destruction. spoiler[This is mostly shown at the end of the film when Yuichi goes to fight the ace pilot knowing full well that he will die.] That's just how I saw it, though it's one of those films where each person seems to be able to see something different in the meaning. It's a very subjective film which is why I liked it so much, I thought it was a very powerful movie. |
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Vracer111
 Posts: 194 |
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Let me preface this by letting you know I am not a 'deep thinker'... Sky Crawlers a dull anti-war film? I really don't think there's an anti-war message in Sky Crawlers. The 'War Game' situation is just the context that the actual story is taking place in, and that story is about when one's existence is created for just playing a repetitive part, a cyclic life routine for the sake/benifit of others. Punch in, Punch out... literally - LOL! I don't think it being a commentary on anime is accurate... Oshii intended it more of a commentary on the current youth generation based on the interviews. Seems more of a comment on the current generation's cold, consumer attitude. I very much like the Sky Crawlers. Can't really explain it well, but you see how Yuichi changes but doesn't at the same time, the emotional and thought inducing dialog between the female pilot of the twin engine-pod aircraft and Yuichi when he stays in his room, how everything starts from square one at the end - except Suito does accept her reality (chooses which side of the road to walk on so to speak...) and actually changes for the better. The Sky Crawlers and Jin-Roh are among my favorite anime movies, and they both have equal emotional and psychological punch to me. |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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Read the review before watching it (way back), and - well, my apologies to the review author, but I dismiss any "deep" thoughts about this kind of media, so even if the metaphorical content is there, I didn't care, and avoided looking for it. In art, everyone's free to see what they want, after all, it's part of the enjoyment. Personally, I enjoyed it for what it was, though admittedly it did little to explain how the world came to be like that (perhaps this is an indication that it really is some kind of metaphor). I liked the bleakness of it, the fact that it seemed emotionless, but in fact induced emotion. Can't say it's one of my favourite movies, but it definitely has the Oshii touch.
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gartholamundi
 Posts: 316 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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for me, Sky Crawlers is a film that's more enjoyable to talk about and think about than it is to actually watch. (Even though its completely beautiful, the only character I really liked and looked forward to seeing on-screen was the dog.)
I'm interested in Ggultra2764's and Mushi-Man's responses -- the idea of society-wide desensitization reminds me of the book "Amused to Death," where the author suggests and explores the idea that the addiction to entertainment (my words) prevalent in the middle class is dangerous when the easy availability of mass media blurs the lines between reality (as in for example an actual war) and fictionalized violence. |
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acstopstar
Posts: 3 Location: Jamaica |
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Watching sky Crawlers kinda remind me of Area 88
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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That's quite a loose comparison. Whilst both depict bleak aerial warfare, one work focuses on a pilot's descent into hopelessness and the degrading personal transformation that occurs thereafter, whilst the other takes place after this fall from grace has taken effect. The Sky Crawlers shows a broken psyche devoid of optimism from its outset. spoiler[It is worth noting that both works use the device of death in a separate manner. Area 88's screenplay implies that death is a simple consequence of Shin's metamorphosis, whereas Oshii's film contrasts this by depicting death as something almost desirable, albeit something that does little to end the ongoing cycle of suffering.]
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hipnox
 Posts: 143 |
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Didn´t get it and didn´t like it.
I watched it on TV, subed. The TV ad hinted at a war-themed aerial combat movie with interesting aircraft designs, so i was really dissapointed with what i saw. it felt unnecessarily boring and long, and if it had a message, i missed it completely. I usually dont like Mamoru Oshii´s work. His characters and their interaction with one another always feel lifeless and completely deprived of emotions.(personal opinion) |
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GhstDreamer
 Posts: 134 |
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Always loved Neil Postman's works - his book on the End of Education is particularly eye-opening especially being in education myself.
Having watched Sky Crawlers as well - I also felt the same way that violence has become so embedded in their society, it becomes ho-hum. It's no longer a surprise, shocking or placing any real emotions towards. It becomes something that just exists and happens because it always happened before. I remember reading something (maybe in an interview?) by Michael Moore and he stated that he was shocked by the apparent nonchalance the audience felt when watching the scene of a black man being beaten violently in his movie Roger and Me. As if the beating of a black man constantly depicted in movies and tv shows has become part of a routine for viewing experience and is no longer surprising but is an expected occurrence. He stated we become desensitized to such violence and no longer question why it even happens anymore. However he was equally shocked that his audience wrote in and complained about one of the scenes in which a woman skinned a rabbit for food. They viewed a woman skinning a rabbit for food to be more inappropriate than a person beating someone else up on the account of their race. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I "got it" I guess, yes, but found it mostly boring and heavily depressing to see these spoiler[clones endless repetitive and unchanging machine-like existence. Doing the same things, and making the same mistakes in multiple lifetimes.]
This film should have come with user's manual or something. The philosophy is extremely awkward and feels unnatural, totally at odds with the film's story if you ask me. It did have some great animation and nice jet action though. |
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