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This Week in Games - What in The Fresh Hell is Going On With Square-Enix?


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SciasSlash



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 3:01 pm Reply with quote
FunkyDude88 wrote:

It's weird to see people are trying to frame this like Square-Enix is selling off a priceless heirloom for pocket change to fuel some drug habit rather than them selling a beat up old car in their driveway for a few hundred bucks to get rid of it after years of collecting rust and doing nothing.


people are really obsessed with the narrative that these games were the best ever and squeenix had no idea what to do with them. in reality, they were largely mediocre games that sold decently but also cost massive amounts to make, and kept getting diminishing returns. did anyone care about the third tomb raider?
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Vladimir Morales



Joined: 08 Mar 2022
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It all leads to a feeling that Square-Enix are a soulless, money-hungry corporation whose management doesn't care about what they're putting out.


Really? What was your first clue? The fact that everything completely unrelated to Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest has failed to make an impact? By this point, I wouldn't be shocked if Square Enix was bought by Sony because the vast majority of titles produced by SE have been PlayStation-exclusives.
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FireChick
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Not only that, doesn't SE still need to remake the rest of Final Fantasy 7?
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Dark Mac



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 320
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 7:39 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

Dark Mac wrote:
so this should be a perk for their Japanese studios as well. Also, I wouldn't really say they're focusing on AAA output, considering how many small games they're putting out. You didn't even mention Triangle strategy, which came out a bit over a month ago and seems to be a big success.


Probably be mentioned more if it weren’t a switch exclusive or had more fanfare surrounding it.


It sold more than Stranger of Paradise and Square put out some press releases about it.
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SciasSlash



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Dark Mac wrote:
BadNewsBlues wrote:

Dark Mac wrote:
so this should be a perk for their Japanese studios as well. Also, I wouldn't really say they're focusing on AAA output, considering how many small games they're putting out. You didn't even mention Triangle strategy, which came out a bit over a month ago and seems to be a big success.


Probably be mentioned more if it weren’t a switch exclusive or had more fanfare surrounding it.


It sold more than Stranger of Paradise and Square put out some press releases about it.


Selling more than stranger of paradise really isnt that impressive. Paradise is very obviously a 'b' game, a spinoff.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
The problem is that SE just labels nearly any single player game a "flop" these days, even if it sells tens of millions of copies, because they want every game to sell huge AND generate constant live service revenue on top of that.


That's not true at all. There's been reports about many games selling above their projected numbers like producer Tomoya Asano thanking fans for making Triangle Strategy such a smash success.

One thing Tomb Raider fans need to understand is number of sales don't mean anything on their own. Despite however millions the recent games have sold that has to be compared to how much it cost to make them, market them, and distributing them. If a huge chunk of those sales were from when it was marked down to 20 dollars in stores, from Humble Bundle purchases, or Steam sales when it was 4 dollars then that obviously isn't going to be as massive as the initial numbers say. There's a lot of factors that contribute to a game not performing well or making money.
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AQuin1904



Joined: 13 Nov 2021
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 9:22 pm Reply with quote
A lot of what I've read on the sale of Eidos et al. is focused on the IPs that go with them, but I have a hard time seeing it as such a big deal. Most of them strike me more as "classics" that were major titles but have been steadily declining in relevance for years (something I suspect that price reflects). Not to say that they haven't been good games or couldn't have good sequels, but the prospect of revivals doesn't excite me.

I don't expect SE to make good use of the change either, considering how many ill-conceived or under-baked games and initiatives they've been pouring money into. I have no idea what's going on internally, but their output has been so scattershot for so long that it's hard to feel excitement or anticipation for anything they have coming out.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 10:21 pm Reply with quote
FunkyDude88 wrote:

The company is barely profitable if you go off the earning reports. Crystal Dynamics had a profit margin of 3.6% while Eidos Montreal had a profit margin of 0.65% in 2021. Lara Croft has not been an industry icon since the 90s and Crystal Dynamics is even on record stating they hate classic Lara and think she's a much better character now. Whatever status these characters companies had in the 90s is no longer relevant.

It's weird to see people are trying to frame this like Square-Enix is selling off a priceless heirloom for pocket change to fuel some drug habit rather than them selling a beat up old car in their driveway for a few hundred bucks to get rid of it after years of collecting rust and doing nothing.


Yeah, while I think SE is doing a lot of things wrong, the numbers in this case speak for themselves. SE said they didn't do well and outsiders went "Whaaa?" when they could only see the sales numbers (and rightly so), but I imagine those kinds of margins aren't something most companies want to continue to risk spending tens of, if not hundreds of, millions of dollars on when any game could end up a flop.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:19 am Reply with quote
Unlike Capcom which did a phenomenal job at growing their PC gaming audience, Square Enix has done pretty much the exact opposite. Nier Automata had a completely botched port. FF VII Remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 are still bafflingly absent from Steam. They removed the higher quality Dragon Quest XI from purchase on PC and replaced it with a much worse looking port of the Switch version. They are basically doing nothing right for PC gamers.
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:24 am Reply with quote
You're Goddamn right I'm a Legacy of Kain fan! Been dying to see something from this series, be it a sequel, a remaster or a remake. Mayne an animated series? I pitched that once (even developed a treatment). Whatever they decide they'd better decide soon; at least three of the original actors are now dead and Michael Bell is at least ten years older than Tony Jay when he died!
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Theozilla



Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 144
Location: Oakland, California
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 2:00 am Reply with quote
FunkyDude88 wrote:
Heidi might be interested to know Naoki Yoshida has expressed interest and support for NFTs. He even called out the English Twitch chat during a live-letter for complaining about them and called them ignorant on the subject.


Do you have a direct source for this? I feel like that would have been reported on more if Yoshida had actually explicitly defended NFTs.

Last I heard Yoshida had said NFTs and Blockchain had no place in FFXIV.

EDIT:
I think you might be misremembering this conversation, while Yoshida unfortunately didn’t wholehearted condemn NFTs, I wouldn't really describe his comments as support for them either.
https://www.dualshockers.com/yoship-metaverse-nfts-ffxiv-comments-explained/?amp


Last edited by Theozilla on Sat May 07, 2022 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pikabot



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Yeah, while I think SE is doing a lot of things wrong, the numbers in this case speak for themselves. SE said they didn't do well and outsiders went "Whaaa?" when they could only see the sales numbers (and rightly so), but I imagine those kinds of margins aren't something most companies want to continue to risk spending tens of, if not hundreds of, millions of dollars on when any game could end up a flop.


I mean, sort-of, but the actual problem is that Squeenix's sale projections for those games were absurd. There was never any chance of them hitting it. Whether those projections were inflated to make their books seem relatively balanced while FFXIV 1.0 was bleeding them dry, or if the people doing the projections were just insanely wrong, either way it points to dysfunctional management at S-E.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6199
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 8:55 pm Reply with quote
Dark Mac wrote:


It sold more than Stranger of Paradise and Square put out some press releases about it.


Hell of a low bar.

Megiddo wrote:
Unlike Capcom which did a phenomenal job at growing their PC gaming audience,


The PC port of Street Fighter V installing a rootlkit opening your PC up to malware.

And the janky port of MHW not withstanding?

Vladimir Morales wrote:
Really? What was your first clue? The fact that everything completely unrelated to Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest has failed to make an impact?


In the interest of fairness FFXV didn’t have a “positive” impact amongst gamers especially after all that time it spent in development (sympathy and condolences for people who were invested in the game via that post game DLC) and Kingdom Hearts 3 was just as divisive.

SciasSlash wrote:
did anyone care about the third tomb raider?


Believe it or not people did……eventhough it was the weakest of the new trilogy.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 495
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 11:36 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:


You’re basing this off of what exactly? them having other things to look over is not why the FFXIII stuff was messy (and people were comparing about FF in general long before 2009), why Kingdom Hearts 3 took so long to come out, nor why you have titles that are still waiting on newer entries like Musashi, Vagrant Story, or Bushido Blade or why some games were never localized outside of Japan like the 3DS version of Dragonquest XI..


Because the SE current has released slew of AA titles (Octopath Traveler, NEO TWENTY, Bravely Default games, Nier Automata,Triangle Strategy, SaGa Scarlet GracE Trials of Mana) and midst of reviving once thought dead franchises (Mana Valkyrie Profile, Star Ocean) and making new IP (DioField Chronicles).

Just because they aren't focusing on some other specific niche games doesn't mean they aren't do any. Beside Musashi got a sequel back in the PS2 era.

So I have no idea why some people in this thread a re acting like SE is some miserable shape. The SE right now is in the most profitable state they have bee its entire history and vast majority of their titles have sold very well.

Yeah there some whining about blockchain, but there nothing ever suggest that wasn't any thing but lip-service to investors. At worst it have been something pretty benign.
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vampiyan



Joined: 25 Oct 2021
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 10:30 pm Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
Just because they aren't focusing on some other specific niche games doesn't mean they aren't do any.


Kinda sounds like the people who get upset and say every Nintendo announcement and Direct is bad because there wasn't a new Paper Mario game in the style of TTYD being announced. It's a very specific fanbase. As a huge RPG fan though I think they're doing fine and put out plenty of nice games in that genre over the past few years. I always associate Square-Enix with RPGs not their western titles. I'm looking forward to the new Star Ocean game and hope it's good. Their comment about focusing on Japanese style games seemed odd since they're still making Forspoken and that looks very western-ized and I thought it was a western game they were just publishing until I saw the names attached to it. I suppose it's too deep into development to just suddenly stop though if they're just now changing their minds. My main complaint with Square-Enix these days is shoddy PC ports and remasters. They need to do better in those areas.
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