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NEWS: Live-Action Death Note Film's Producer Responds to Whitewashing Controversy

TarsTarkas wrote:

I love this new world we live in, where everyone is evil. Enjoy. This topic is a fool's errand.

Then why bother to comment with a bait post instead of just ignoring it and moving on?

I do have realistic expectations. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a character from a Japanese property who is ethnically Japanese in that property to be cast as a Japanese person. Maybe we should consider the fact that traditionally white characters like Captain America, James Bond, and Batman are never rewritten for PoC; hell, in the comic book universe there is a canonically black and chicano Spiderman, but Marvel stubbornly demanded that Sony give them the rights to Peter Parker so they could make damn sure their on-screen Spiderman is white! And you want to pretend it's an even playing field.

Something that I felt would go without saying, but apparently it does need saying: A well-made spin-off can stand on its own without need to be fully familiar with the original. Death Note is a rather simple concept that can be re-explained in this version.

The references to the Japanese Kira events would just work to make the world feel more real and full and make those who have have not watched any of the old version interested in seeing, at the least, the Japanese live action movies.

It may be a niche medium, but Death Note is easily one of the most well known non-shounen-adventure anime in the last ten years.

pluvia33 wrote:

Something that I felt would go without saying, but apparently it does need saying: A well-made spin-off can stand on its own without need to be fully familiar with the original. Death Note is a rather simple concept that can be re-explained in this version.

Except Death Note doesn't need another spin-off though (which it already has plenty of). Making another one especially in a market where it's still pretty obscure and unknown accomplishes nothing.

pluvia33 wrote:

The references to the Japanese Kira events would just work to make the world feel more real and full and make those who have have not watched any of the old version interested in seeing, at the least, the Japanese live action movies.

Well sure provided they can overlook the continuity issues that would exist from making the American production a spin-off with not proper connection to anything. And the fact that the Japanese films.....are Japanese films with subtitles.

pluvia33 wrote:

It may be a niche medium, but Death Note is easily one of the most well known non-shounen-adventure anime in the last ten years.

Not bigger than Naruto or DragonBall.

Asians have actually been doing work in the Hollywood film industry from almost the very start. It was in 1910 that "In Old California" became the 1st movie filmed in Hollywood. The first Asian stars in Hollywood was a married couple: Sessue Hayakawa (6/10/1889-11/23/1973) and Tsuru Aoki (9/9/1892-10/18/1961). His 1st Hollywood movie was a 1914 silent short and hers was a 1913 film.

TarsTarkas wrote:

I love this new world we live in, where everyone is evil. Enjoy. This topic is a fool's errand.

Then why bother to comment with a bait post instead of just ignoring it and moving on?

As for the discussion at hand it's straying from the actual topic and many of you are simply talking in circles. We've let this thread go as it has remained mostly civil but now with neither side giving ground it's time to reel it back in some. Thank you.

As for the discussion at hand it's straying from the actual topic and many of you are simply talking in circles. We've let this thread go as it has remained mostly civil but now with neither side giving ground it's time to reel it back in some. Thank you.

I have no investment in how other cultural communities manage and maintain their social boundaries, so not really: when a relationship has been established which permits cross-cultural influence to occur organically and without threatening the independent right of any participating agent to keep certain elements of their society closed, I think that this sort of interaction can be really healthy. That's why I felt compelled to cite my own cultural boundaries when confronted with Kikaioh's vaguely colorblind philosophy, which is in and of itself a product of a great mistake of Eurocentric worldviews, this idea that everything not central to white society (i.e. foreign) somehow orbits white society in anticipation of becoming involved with it: the mistake is in not recognizing or not acknowledging that in the vast majority of cases, these cultural transactions with the dominant culture are just an extended function of the one-way street known as imperialism, that is to say involuntary and with little benefit to such "foreign" peoples. So while I can't speak for any other group, as an Indigenous person, I can reference those elements of my religion which are essential to me both as an individual and in understanding my place in community: they draw their meaning and their significance from this manner of selective attribution because they draw from a well of lived cultural experience which doesn't extend to outside peoples. As far as I'm concerned, that is one of the only ways for marginalized groups of people (particularly if we understand people not in the sense of "individual" but as members of community, where that community is the people) to successfully survive in an occupied, hostile landscape.

So yeah, thank you for sharing your own experience and perspective: I don't think it's an all-or-nothing question, but I'm determined to defy this unfortunately careless theory of solving society's woes by simply deciding to make friendly with our abusers, especially as it pertains to abandoning our only power to self-identify and resist through established cultural markers. As with any human relationship lacking equivalent status and agency, that's not friendship, it's exploitation.

I went directly against my parents and majored in film at university. But because of the bridges they burned (my father in particular was very skilled at burning bridges; he was an electrical engineer and wanted me to follow in his footsteps, cutting off other avenues in attempts to force me into it), I’m currently stuck in a limbo of sorts, where my degree isn’t really that useful. It is frustrating to remember being distinguished in school, winning art contests and creative writing contests, only to then get stuck in the doldrums after graduation because the opportunities I created for myself were subsequently destroyed, and I also graduated at a time of intense disruption in mass media as people started getting their entertainment online, meaning what I learned at college wound up being worthless to employers, and it also happened at the same time as the Great Recession, with unemployment being sky-high in the United States. Hence, I’m in the process of starting from scratch and going into digital media, where I’m far more likely to achieve something as an independent creator.

So Death Note "doesn't need" another spin-off, but another adaptation of the same base story that's already been told 4+ times is just fine?

You don't seem to really comment on the point of my statement which you quoted: a properly made spin-off would be just as good and potentially better than the new adaptation that is being made.

The spin-off could easily be done without alienating new viewers while also giving nods to those who are familiar with the rest of the franchise. I do not see that as accomplishing nothing.

It would still be connected by Ryuk and his Death Note.

Are you just saying that the fast majority of new viewers for the Death Note movie would not watch the Japanese movies just because of the fact that they're Japanese with subtitles?

Hence why I included the "non-shounen-adventure" stipulation. Based on this video, Death Note is more well known among a sampling of 10 teenagers than FMA, Bleach, and One Piece.

Japan's adapted the story like 4 times. America has never had an original adaptation of Death Note.

.....

Alexis.Anagram wrote:

I have no investment in how other cultural communities manage and maintain their social boundaries, so not really: when a relationship has been established which permits cross-cultural influence to occur organically and without threatening the independent right of any participating agent to keep certain elements of their society closed, I think that this sort of interaction can be really healthy. That's why I felt compelled to cite my own cultural boundaries when confronted with Kikaioh's vaguely colorblind philosophy, which is in and of itself a product of a great mistake of Eurocentric worldviews, this idea that everything not central to white society (i.e. foreign) somehow orbits white society in anticipation of becoming involved with it: the mistake is in not recognizing or not acknowledging that in the vast majority of cases, these cultural transactions with the dominant culture are just an extended function of the one-way street known as imperialism, that is to say involuntary and with little benefit to such "foreign" peoples. So while I can't speak for any other group, as an Indigenous person, I can reference those elements of my religion which are essential to me both as an individual and in understanding my place in community: they draw their meaning and their significance from this manner of selective attribution because they draw from a well of lived cultural experience which doesn't extend to outside peoples. As far as I'm concerned, that is one of the only ways for marginalized groups of people (particularly if we understand people not in the sense of "individual" but as members of community, where that community is the people) to successfully survive in an occupied, hostile landscape. So yeah, thank you for sharing your own experience and perspective: I don't think it's an all-or-nothing question, but I'm determined to defy this unfortunately careless theory of solving society's woes by simply deciding to make friendly with our abusers, especially as it pertains to abandoning our only power to self-identify and resist through established cultural markers. As with any human relationship lacking equivalent status and agency, that's not friendship, it's exploitation.

Actually, my colorblind philosophy isn't a product of a "great mistake" of Eurocentric views. The problem I think may stem more from you still being attached to an older, more conservative, less open-minded and culturally preservationist philosophy.

I'm a super-mix of cultures and ethnicities. My mother was born in a hut in the Philippines, and my father was born on the mean streets of Brooklyn, but lived most of his life in Puerto Rico. My grandmother was white, my grandfather was hispanic--- my great great (great?) grandmother was a plantation slave, and my great great grandfather, a plantation owner. My cousins are Black, Asian, Hispanic, White, you name it. I grew up religiously agnostic, and lived parts of my life in the Pacific Ocean, the American mid-west, and also in Europe. And since then, I've traveled to a lot of places around the world. And in all my experiences, while different cultures had many interesting ideas and traditions that were fascinating to see and take part of, I've also seen a lot of culture simply divide people apart.

Cultural "pride", I think, is an older way of communal survival, that I don't think has as much a place in an increasingly globalised world. I personally see culture as an outcome of historical and environmental circumstance. I'm sure even the culture you have today is largely unrecognizable to the same culture a thousand years ago. Cultures constantly evolve and change over time, and are latched onto by people as a result of social proximity and shared survival. But with the world becoming more secular and culturally mixed in recent years, I think in the long term, culture won't be "owned" by anyone or "denied" to anyone either.

And I think that's the direction the world is heading in --- globalist, secular, cultural mixing, and a shared, egalitarian humanity. We're already seeing it with Christianity, as the secular establishment of Western democracies has eroded the divisions of different denominations, and seemingly led to the rise of non-religious and non-denominational spiritual identification. I think eventually, as people are born more and more of mixed ethnicity and race, generations will grow up questioning and challenging the customs of their communities, letting go of older traditions and mindsets, and eventually, at some point, ideas will be shared by humanity as a whole, not divided by groups of peoples. I like that idea. I think that's how the world ought to be.

As for white people? Certainly there have been terribly racist white people in the past, and there are certainly many who are still racist even in the modern day. But we also now have a young generation of white people who legitimately aren't racist, but are experiencing for the first time the weight of history attached to their skin color, and a sense of being guilted for crimes they themselves haven't committed. And in many respects, I don't think that's fair, and I think the demonization of "white" people almost callously lumps in all of those people who are white but aren't racist, which I think is prodding this sort of youthful, lulz-driven defensiveness that we're seeing emerge in the form of the alt-right. We shouldn't blame white people for being racist, we should blame people who are racist period, regardless of their skin color.

And finally, lets not forget that Japan isn't innocent here either. During WWII, Japan was guilty of the exact same imperialism that you've been criticizing of white people. Bringing "enlightenment" to the savage Asian nations was a large part of their propaganda and justification for their invasion of countries such as the Philippines, as well as their cruel and horrific war policies and acts, such as the Three Alls policy, the Rape of Nanking, and the Bataan Death March (which, as a Filipino, I'm well-aware of). That's part of why I find this discussion so awkward --- Asian Americans laying claim to Japanese characters seems to fly in the face of not only Japan's history with Asia, but their cultural outlook on Asian foreigners in general. If you were arguing about Asian-American characters being "stolen", maybe that would be one thing --- but Japanese people are less in touch with their Asian neighbors than they are with White Westerners in general, so I can't help but feel that the Japanese culture is being completely ignored in an attempt to push an Asian-American agenda instead.

And again, both producers we've heard from are Asian Americans, one of whom is actually Japanese American and was a famous actor to boot (Masi Oka was in the television series "Heroes" and "Hawaii Five-O"). So either they're both lying and there's a conspiracy afoot, or the realities of Asian-American demographics really did play a factor in their casting decisions. As an Asian American myself, I lean towards the latter, and I personally think most of the noise about this is coming from Asian-American descendants who've strongly bought into an "Asian" identity (maybe because they have a hard time fitting in either their home country or here in the United States), as well as Western anime fans who maybe put Japan onto too high of a pedestal, and are prone to be more critical towards Western culture in general.

Anyways, that's my two cents on the matter. I won't push too much further, since the moderators seem a bit wary of the conversation as it stands. I'm just forward-looking towards humanity's future --- while I think people will still hold shared cultural ideas, I think they'll be more beholden to the virtues of the ideas themselves, than any sort of pridefully shared group-centric identity. I'm the result of color-blind mixing of races and cultures, and I'd hope the future holds as much for the world as well.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

I went directly against my parents and majored in film at university. But because of the bridges they burned (my father in particular was very skilled at burning bridges; he was an electrical engineer and wanted me to follow in his footsteps, cutting off other avenues in attempts to force me into it), I’m currently stuck in a limbo of sorts, where my degree isn’t really that useful. It is frustrating to remember being distinguished in school, winning art contests and creative writing contests, only to then get stuck in the doldrums after graduation because the opportunities I created for myself were subsequently destroyed, and I also graduated at a time of intense disruption in mass media as people started getting their entertainment online, meaning what I learned at college wound up being worthless to employers, and it also happened at the same time as the Great Recession, with unemployment being sky-high in the United States. Hence, I’m in the process of starting from scratch and going into digital media, where I’m far more likely to achieve something as an independent creator.

I did also want to say, that's a really rough set of circumstances. My father was also something of an electrical engineer (in telecommunications), and was a huge believer in the power of education that pulled him out of poverty, a belief that was pounded into my head growing up. Anyways, good luck again, you have a lot of guts to stand up for your beliefs and for your own way of life. The media landscape keeps changing, and the economy's ups and downs haven't been kind to everyone, but I would like to believe that if you fight for your dreams you'll at least be satisfied with how you lived your life, and I like to think that that's important, come what may.