Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Subway Groping Really A Big Deal In Japan?
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NeverConvex
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Posts: 2458 |
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Is groping a major problem in other parts of the world with highly crowded public transportation? I spent roughly a year abroad in eastern Africa and can anecdotally-but-rather-confidently attest that public transportation there (primarily vis-a-vis little 'daladala' buses - technically private rather than public, but they were the only game in town) was the most crowded I've ever experienced; it was quite normal to be incapable of moving on a bus, during one ride I had to pretend I was playing Twister and snake my body over one person and under another, during rides there were typically 1-3 people hanging out the side of the van as it trundled down the road, etc.
I'm not sure what the 'grope rate' was like in Tanzania, though. Treatment of women was definitely lagging a few decades behind the western norm according to my female Tanzanian friends, but I never specifically asked about public groping, and I'm not sure if there'd be any statistics on it. Maybe there are other countries that collect statistics on this kind of thing, though? I seem to remember China's public transportation being pretty crowded. Seems to be commonplace in a lot've developing nations. Just quickly googling it, this article popped up: "Where are the world's most dangerous transit systems for women?". Tokyo actually did very well in the survey on which that article is based:
But the survey used includes questions about non-groping issues as well:
And presumably it was all aggregated somehow into the final ranking. Digging a bit into their website, it does look like Tokyo's ranking gets flipped on its head if you focus just on the "physical harassment" question. From the source organization, here's the ranking on the relevant question: I'm about to run to work so I don't have time just this second, but it would be interesting if someone wanted to dig up statistics on the typical ridership density of these cities' public transportation systems. Eyeballing the list, my guess is there'd be a positive correlation between the two, but I'm not sure how strong to expect it to be. The results for this question also seem relevant: |
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jojothepunisher
Posts: 799 |
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People laugh at these types of things for the same reason that people on the internet laugh at Hitler and 911 jokes and all of the Tarantino movies. |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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I'll believe them when the attitude is public and common sense and it all points the opposite right now. Habits die hard.
Women aren't the damsels in distress we all think they are, especially now that they're experiencing a surge of "empowerment." Gotta take the good with the bad. Now that they're being allowed to speak out more, the unsavory ones who get through their lives using lies and deceit...and they get away with it more often than not. Until then, the illusion that gender equality and accountability will just remain that: an illusion. And I don't think I can answer your hypothetical since women operate in a different line of mental framework to men similar to how the latter's instinct to act first over the former wanting to be a recipient of an act. It's just biology.
Better tread lightly there, mate. I've never sexually assaulted someone or anything of the sort. Assumptions like that will lead you to a lot of trouble. Just some food fro thought. And you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that one is better over the other. I'm just pointing out two disparagingly different attitudes towards how others perceive them. No need for that kneejerk reaction.
That's not always the case. There have been incidents of women conjuring false accusations of being grabbed by men without proof or evidence. Even if the accused tries to use logic or reason, he's already on the losing side only because he isn't of the fairer sex. This is the injustice that I'm trying to put in the spotlight.
You underestimate how social media is a notorious tool to commit the act while hiding behind anonymity. All it takes is a photo and a bogus tweet to have your good name come crashing down. And with that, I've said my piece. I feel like going further will become a contest of heated and sour exchanges. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 24012 |
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Excellent idea to shut up given the load of misogynistic and racist bullshit you've dumped in this thread. Yeah, I saw your little "Swedish police seem to care more about "outsiders" comment. Stick to fapping over Milo Yiannopoulos and spare us misogynist/racist crap. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Posts: 3018 |
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Pray that you continue to remain so insulated from the evils of the world, that you never have to question your own ignorance about the actions of those who endeavor to prevent suffering. |
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#Verso.Sciolto
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Yes. Among the 16 global metropolitans where surveys were conducted in 2014, Tokyo's transport system ranked fourth most dangerous for women [where groping is concerned], based on the question:
Last edited by #Verso.Sciolto on Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Stuff like that happens in America all the time, only replace 'groups talking about groping' with 'groups sharing creepshots and sharing techniques'. People just upload them to YouTube half the time and there was a pretty big subreddit dedicated to it until Reddit went Orwellian and axed it. But it still exists just about everywhere else. Funny enough Japan's method of combating these things is making women only cars and forcing phones to make a sound when they take a picture is stuff that would probably never fly in America. Apple loves to protect phone information from police because... freedom? And women-only cars would probably be called sexist for 'victim blaming' or 'segregation is bad'. Japan's pretty progressive as far as combating that kind of stuff where America still lags behind. Its funny seeing comments like 'Wow, the fact these exists in Japan shows how big the problem is' when people SHOULD be saying 'why does Japan openly combat this stuff while America pretends it doesn't exist'? Just because you don't see signs to tell people not to upskirt in America doesn't mean it's not a widespread thing. Just go do a YouTube or Google search and enjoy. Maybe this Seanbaby guy should ask why America DOESN'T have signs up saying that. Keeping up appearances, maybe? Sweep it under the rug since if you don't acknowledge it it doesn't exist? Hmm...
The reason you see people concerned about false accusations is because so many high-profile cases do end up being hoaxes. You see the same thing happening with the spike of fake hate crimes over the past few months where now most people roll their eyes everytime a poorly drawn swastika or note gets pinned on someone's door. Don't blame the skeptical villagers, blame the little boys and girls who keeps crying wolf and ruining it for the people who are legitimately attacked and trivializing the whole concept for attention/revenge. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 24012 |
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^
Aaaand the stupidity continues. At least having a username like Lord Oink tell us what you think of yourself and that your self-assessment is correct. Wow, look at this twisted logic. The reason Japan has women only subway cars and puts up special signs isn't because groping is more of a problem there relative to other places ... it's because it's the only jurisdiction that is trying to combat the problem. Jesus Christ, the mental pretzeling here is unbelievable. Oh, but no alt-right post would be complete without a completely unbacked up claim that "so many" high-profile cases of sexual assault end up being hoaxes. Like Bill Cosby, right? And OF COURSE it goes without saying that claims of hate crimes are hoaxes, too. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10448 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Words fail me. I did not know this was an issue. I mean, obviously it happens sometimes (and everywhere), but I did not think that it was a significant issue in Japan. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10448 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Uhhhh.... There is perhaps, a nugget of truth to this. But the opposite is in fact much more common. Women in Japan are often ostracized and lose their jobs for daring to report anything from "minor" sexual mistreatment to violent rape. Knowing full well that the social ostracism they will face for reporting the crime and/or being victimized is worse than the crime itself, many Japanese women will not report the crime. "OMG don't talk to her, don't you know she let Hiroaki-sempai rape her in the closet?" "Oh, is that why he was transferred?" "Yeah" "What a bitch." "Don't worry, she'll quit soon. No one wants her here." "I don't imagine she'll be able to find a job anywhere else after this." "Serves her right." -t |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11525 |
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Your assertion that I addressed was about under-reporting, not whether it happens at all. So again, no the same can not be said. Nice try though. |
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0nsen
Posts: 256 |
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If it's such a big problem, why don't they just make it so that trains won't get so crowded that you literally cannot help but bump into everyone. If they stuff more people in a train than there is actually space, it's kind of a self made problem.
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jr240483
Posts: 4421 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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depressing. more like scared to death. on what i would have done to the perv if he had ever did that to my little sister or to my cousin. i was wondering why this thing was a massive trend in ero series, now that pretty much explains that. a good thing that i DONT live in tokyo and its a good thing that new york city (where i currently live) dont even have a single one of the creepos. if i had seen a "pedo bear" do that to the female members of my family,i pretty much would have lost it and beaten the living hell out of that beast cause an actual man dont like like demonic animals like what their doing in those subways. |
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Shaterri
Posts: 173 |
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The thing is, you don't see it, because it more often than not happens out of sight, when people think they can get away with it. You don't hear about it, because by and large it overwhelmingly doesn't get talked about (for the reasons people have given in this thread and for many others). If you talked to your sister or cousin calmly (i.e., not with blood in your eyes with rage over any possible abuse) and concernedly about how they've been treated, I would expect them to have stories to share with you. The people who do this aren't demons; they don't have glowing eyes, they don't salivate at the very prospect of being able to taint some poor young thing's purity. They don't have giant glowing signs over their head reading 'evil pervert'. They're people; they look like anyone else, and they 99% act like anyone else. And that's the most terrifying part of all, because they can be literally anyone. |
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Wow. I'm flabbergasted. It's hard for me to believe that there are still people who honestly think this way. I want to respond carefully to fully understand this mindset.
I'm sorry, who's "allowing" women to report harassment more often now? Is speaking up when being treated as a sexual object something that we need to be "allowed" to do? And do some people believe that women are more prone to lies and deceit as a form of abusive behavior than men are?
Women are just not that significantly psychologically different from men. This argument has been used to paint women as an "other" that men can't possibly relate to, understand, and emphasize with. Just because our bodies and gender expressions are different does not mean we are so different from one another that we are beyond empathy, let alone compassion. The fact that some people think this way and attribute it to biology does as much to deepen the divide of inequality as the attitude above that women "have to take the good (of quote-unquote "empowerment,") with the bad (of sexual harassment)." And what is "empowerment" in this context, anyway? The ability to report crimes? Move freely in public space? What are women trying to do that is so "empowering" that they should accept harassment as a consequence of it? |
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