Forum - View topicREVIEW: Vividred Operation Episodes 1-6 Streaming
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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Money is definitely one thing that matters, which I'm not at all neglecting for the record. But it's not always the only thing that matters to many people in a creative industry and it's getting really frustrating how you rather constantly stick your head in the sand whenever the discussion is brought up than even try to figure out what else could matter to anyone in the creative industry or why. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Enjoy the unusual auteur anime that come out as best you can, they'll always be in the minority.
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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You can keep on harping on about how creativity is the most important thing in the anime industry, but I kinda lost faith any of that mattered when nobody could pony up the money to complete Satoshi Kons final movie. There just wasn't potential profits in doing that.
Also, just to confirm, I'm only talking about what the anime industry itself cares about. I know fans care a lot more about creativity and such, but to a Suit at the top of an anime company, those types of anime aren't very good for the bottom line. I can't see them appreciating it very much if something is losing them money. Last edited by RyanSaotome on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I don't think anyone actually believes that creativity is the most important thing in ANY business, entertainment industries not being exempt. The problem arises when people want to actually discuss the content of these shows in something, anything resembling a dissection of it as a potential piece of art and you basically try and shut any conversation like that down with ORICON SALES THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT SHUT UP I've rarely seen any substantial discussion of shows like this go by without you coming in with this argument like it's the ULTIMATE FIREWALL for preventing people from ever mentioning that hey this seems like lowest-common-denominator garbage. Just accept that some people do want to talk about the content critically, beyond just "i like butts this has butts and people are buying it so it's a success shut up about anything else". |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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The point I'm just trying to make is that these kinds of shows aren't really made for foreigners or people who want more creative anime. They're made for the hardcore otaku who fund the industry... and as long as they've satisfied that hardcore base, then the show has done its job. I'm not trying to really defend Vividred itself.. I don't even think its good, and like I said earlier, without the fanservice it wouldn't even be worth watching. But I think people just have the wrong idea about the industry. They think its supposed to be about making the most creative things possible and catering to what THEY want, when the people who like those types of shows generally don't even import anime. Of course they will make anime for the people who actually pay for it, which is why I bring up the Oricon stuff. Those are the most important fans since there wouldn't be an industry without them. |
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terminus24
 Posts: 304 |
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Just finished episode 8. Almost infinitely better than every episode before it, I hope it keeps on going like this. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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As for Acchi Cocci and Gjbu, I don't like them either. It's not necessarily the fanservice, it's just the lack of anything that interests me.
And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) SSY was brought up by DemonHiro because he, like me, thinks that it is one of those 'timeless masterpieces' that are being referred to. Money is totally not all that matters, at least from the perspective of quality. Quality and sales have absolutely nothing to do with each other, so why even mention it? As Zac said, I think this stuff is lowest common denominator garbage. Just because it's selling doesn't make it right. Cigarettes and tanning salons make tons of money and they're horrible for people. I'm not saying that shows like vividred shouldn't exist, but I do think it's kind of circular to defend them that way (saying they're valid because they sell well). It's kind of a "well it is what it is, so therefore it should be that way". That's pretty fatalistic if you ask me. Maybe we could get more timeless masterpieces if we showed more support for them. Clearly creativity matters somewhat or else we would not see any creative titles. The reason stuff like this bothers me is that maybe if people laid off this relentless defense of this stuff just a little bit, we might get to see something on the level of Shinsekai Yori once a year instead of once a decade. |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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They're valid because you wouldn't get the kind of shows you like if these didn't make the money to allow more experimental stuff. If it was all experimental and artsy stuff, nobody would make enough money to stay in business.. they need the easy money shows to make a living. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I understand that, more than you know or would ever give me credit for. But not being able to separate "let's talk about the actual quality of this show" from "whether or not it's profitable" defeats the entire purpose of a discussion forum that's supposed to be dedicated to talking about the show itself, not its place in the economics of the current anime industry. If anything you're making the case that everyone should just dismiss shows like Vividred as garbage for people who can't handle watching anything that isn't just giving them simplistic fantasies to beat off to, and we shouldn't even consider it as art or even entertainment for anyone outside of that small (and expendable income-heavy) group of people. And who knows, maybe we should be doing that if "it's what sells, ignore everything else about it and don't try and have any sort of discussion beyond what kind of butts you prefer and how often this anime is delivering your preferred style of butt" is the endgame in this particular case. You said you don't like this show, but when people criticize other shows you like for being simplistic or trashy you wave all that off with Oricon sales and bust out the "it's what sells, this is how anime is now, shut up" to the point of telling people who don't just scarf down fanservice shows with abandon like so many chicken mcnuggets that they should get out of the hobby. I guess if you hate any actual discussion of the cultural value of shows like this, why do you even bother to participate in them? Nobody's questioning that this stuff makes money, why is that always your trump card? Last edited by Zac on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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That's not quite what I was saying. It's kind of chicken and egg. Would these things be so popular if there weren't so many of them? The desire for them is kind of memetic in a sense. Fanservice is a little different and more primal but whatever. There can be good shows that have fanservice. I'm really only saying that it's largely the fans' fault that there are so few 'experimental' shows, and that it's not written in the stars that it has to be that way. |
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Ingraman
Posts: 1082 |
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I never made it past the first episode of Strike Witches (mostly due to distractions from other titles at the time), and I can only roll my eyes every time an ass is prominently featured on screen in Vividred (and yes, my eyes have done a lot of rolling). I have still found it to be entertaining. I thought about importing the first SW BD set to try again, but I'm not quite willing to blind-buy that one, and don't like using Funi's website or Hulu.
Is it a problem if I've started buying SSY (I've got the first one and the next three are about to ship to me, and will grab the Chihayafuru 2 BDs when they go on sale, too), and I've got the first BD of Vividred in my Amazon cart as I assemble my March order? ^^ |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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That makes very little sense.
Yes, its the fault of those horrible anime fans, buying the things that they enjoyed. How dare they support the entertainment they prefer! |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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It makes quite a bit of sense. Twilight started a huge wave of 'sexy vampire' fiction. Harry Potter started a huge wave of 'magical kid' fiction. If someone went back in time, I bet they could change the lines along which the anime industry developed if they knew what they were doing. Maybe they could have replaced all this imouto fetish stuff with, idk, MILF stuff, or maybe the moe girls could be replaced with assertive dominatrices for example. The point is that it's kind of arbitrary what's 'the thing' at a given time. To say just 'oh that sells because that's what people want' is kind of missing the whole picture.
I don't fault anyone for buying things they enjoy and supporting them. I fault them for using the titles' financial success to try to kill discussion when someone says they don't like them, or that they're kind of repetitive and pandering. Last edited by Galap on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nargun
Posts: 930 |
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I do. I mean, seriously, if we can't fault someone for buying and enjoying softcore kiddyporn what can we fault them for? |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Rape, murder and other actual crimes.
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