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Fronzel
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:14 pm
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Quote: | Hanasaku Iroha is a straight-up youth drama... |
Quote: | There's a wannabe tortured author who kidnaps Ohana and practices S&M rope-knotting on her... |
wut
The preview guide got me interested in this series...but wacky hijinks? Really? That sounds pretty awful, actually.
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Takamachi Ryoko
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 332
Location: 東京, 日本
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:03 am
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Is it just me but Carl really likes reviewing streaming series. A very good review though. HanaIro is one of the anime this season that can keep me at the edge of my seat.
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Alexis.Anagram
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 278
Location: Mishopshno
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 1:07 am
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Fronzel wrote: |
wut
The preview guide got me interested in this series...but wacky hijinks? Really? That sounds pretty awful, actually. |
And it is. I loved the first two episodes of the show, but the third actually put me off so much that I haven't picked it up again (despite telling myself I should). The "tortured author" thread was just plain un-funny and such a departure from the tone of the show up until that point that I didn't really know what to think. It was almost offensive...almost, but I wouldn't even give it that much credit.
I feel like Carl's review was pretty accurate. I disagree that Ohana was detrimentally selfish, though; to be honest, I didn't buy her transformation as such because I didn't think that she was that awful a person to begin with-- although this might be because her circumstances were so overwhelmingly negative and the people around her so completely unlikable that she appeared to be, at worst, understandably distressed. That said, I thought it was admirable that she embraced her misfortune as a challenge to succeed in spite of everything, solidifying her role as an active protagonist and giving me a reason to actively like her. I simply became disappointed in the show itself because where I expected a Fruits Basket-esque charm I was delivered a careless and discordant plot device that threw the entire story out of perspective-- and it was far too early in the series for that kind of nonsense.
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maaya
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 1:28 am
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Quote: | They're all fairly serious breaches for a show that generally aims to be a calmer, more realistic alternative to your average explosions-and-boobs teen anime. |
I don't believe that that is what the show aims to be. Maybe after the first episode you get that impression, but after 7 episodes I have the impression that HanaEro just aims to be another K-On (or moe tame fanservice comedy), just with a different setting. And actually K-On is more realistic than HanaEro =/
Almost all "plot points" established in the first episode are resolved (i.e. forgotten) by the third or so (what about the "hostile environment"? Not much left of that apart from Minko, and actually Minko already likes her as well. The grandma was already shown to be the "cold but actually nice mastermind that knew it all" and trusts Ohana completely).
Ohana's character is completely inconsistent, so that she can be turned into comic relief (she is stupid - and often really stupid - when she needs to be, but she is also intelligent when she needs to be in order for the creators to make a joke or a dramatic speech).
I suppose the show has a lot of time, so they can put in all those fillers and still tell a story later on. But right now I believe that Ohana's mother and Ko-chan will also simply be featured in one episode and problem resolved.
Imho HanaEro is far from the "best of its type" (i.e. slice of life comedy) And seriously, these kind of shows where the "fate of the world is not at stake" make up a big part of new shows each year, especially after K-On's success they seem to be multiplying with amazing speed.
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Big Hed
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 1607
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:33 am
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Carl wrote: | Ohana naturally hogs the series' cuteness, hoarding enough to destroy a platoon of moe clones. |
While Ohana is undoubtedly cute, I'd say Nako wears the moe crown in this series.
Fronzel wrote: | The preview guide got me interested in this series...but wacky hijinks? Really? That sounds pretty awful, actually. |
Alexis.Anagram wrote: | And it is. I loved the first two episodes of the show, but the third actually put me off so much that I haven't picked it up again (despite telling myself I should). The "tortured author" thread was just plain un-funny and such a departure from the tone of the show up until that point that I didn't really know what to think. It was almost offensive...almost, but I wouldn't even give it that much credit. |
I'd say that was the low point of the series (the MOUT episode probably wasn't much better, but I'm biased due to my affection for military anime ), and that the show deserves another chance if you dismissed it based on that. Most of what goes on in the show is pretty wholesome, and the cast is likable (even Tooru has gotten somewhat better).
Alexis.Anagram wrote: | I feel like Carl's review was pretty accurate. I disagree that Ohana was detrimentally selfish, though; to be honest, I didn't buy her transformation as such because I didn't think that she was that awful a person to begin with-- although this might be because her circumstances were so overwhelmingly negative and the people around her so completely unlikable that she appeared to be, at worst, understandably distressed. That said, I thought it was admirable that she embraced her misfortune as a challenge to succeed in spite of everything, solidifying her role as an active protagonist and giving me a reason to actively like her. I simply became disappointed in the show itself because where I expected a Fruits Basket-esque charm I was delivered a careless and discordant plot device that threw the entire story out of perspective-- and it was far too early in the series for that kind of nonsense. |
Wait, wait... So you didn't buy her transformation because it seemed closer to her character than Carl gave her credit for (I agree, by the way, in that she didn't strike me as entirely selfish)? I wouldn't call her decision to take a proactive attitude to her life "careless and discordant nonsense."
maaya wrote: | I don't believe that that is what the show aims to be. Maybe after the first episode you get that impression, but after 7 episodes I have the impression that HanaEro just aims to be another K-On (or moe tame fanservice comedy), just with a different setting. And actually K-On is more realistic than HanaEro =/ |
I'll admit I haven't seen a single bit of K-ON, but Hanasku Iroha doesn't at all strike me as similar to it, save for the SOL overtones. The realism schtick I maybe get due to aforementioned hiccups, but then as Carl said there remains plenty of time for correction in that regard.
Quote: | Almost all "plot points" established in the first episode are resolved (i.e. forgotten) by the third or so (what about the "hostile environment"? Not much left of that apart from Minko, and actually Minko already likes her as well. The grandma was already shown to be the "cold but actually nice mastermind that knew it all" and trusts Ohana completely).
Ohana's character is completely inconsistent, so that she can be turned into comic relief (she is stupid - and often really stupid - when she needs to be, but she is also intelligent when she needs to be in order for the creators to make a joke or a dramatic speech). |
Definitely not in my opinon. As Carl says, at least two big whoppers remain; Ohana's relationship with her mom, and with her grandmother--I reject that that thread is completely tied off by any stretch of the imagination. I also see no signs of this supposed stupidity in Ohana's character; she's headstrong at times, and a little arrogant, like teenagers are--but she's also capable of change. People are allowed to be smart and sometimes make mistakes, no?
Furthermore, as Carl alluded to early on, the show wouldn't work if the inn persisted as a hostile environment. It would have been kinda shitty, in fact. Ohana made some changes to her attitude, as did her colleagues. People met halfway. That's life.
Quote: | But right now I believe that Ohana's mother and Ko-chan will also simply be featured in one episode and problem resolved. |
I don't see the basis for that claim. More to the point, check out episode 8.
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maaya
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:35 am
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I certainly hope you are right, but at this point I have long lost the necessary optimism to believe it.
Episode 8 only made it even clearer that there is no longer a conflict between Ohana and her grandmother, quite on the contrary, they have a mutual understanding and Ohana seems to be more capable of organizing the inn than all the others now oO Still, episode 8 was better than the ones before, so if the show manages to stay like that it won't be too bad. I'm sure they'll bring back the pseudo-drama again though >.>
episode 9 will then be Ko's episode =P
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Big Hed
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 1607
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:46 am
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At the very least, Ohana going out after Tohru again puts more powder in Minchi's keg. Not to mention, Ko's probably going to jump to conclusions toward the end of the episode.
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Swissman
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 793
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:58 am
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I think episode three's "tortured author" with a penchant for eroticism and his unsuccessful suicide attempt is an allusion to "I novel" authors like "Dazai Osamu". It's quite possible that this episode has satirical undertones only japanese truly understand, or at least people with some knowledge of modern japanese literature.
(Yes, I'm serious)
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maaya
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:18 am
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you don't seriously believe the creators to have actually read with interest (i.e. not simply as obligatory school reading) and even less seriously studied and analyzed modern Japanese literature.
And even if they did happen to be inspired by Dazai Osamu (whose suicide is kind of common knowledge after all) ... I see no undertones or message whatsoever, but they clearly only used it as an excuse to include fanservice and comedy relief and to make Ohana save a customer. Not to mention that final superficial, cheesy speech leading to a happy end, which would make Dazai turn over in his grave.
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Swissman
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 793
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:55 am
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maaya wrote: | you don't seriously believe the creators to have actually read with interest (i.e. not simply as obligatory school reading) and even less seriously studied and analyzed modern Japanese literature. |
Why not?
Do you know the creators personally? Do you know their past time leisures? Their interest in literature? Anything at all?
... So why assume they wouldn't read japanese literature with interest, in a country whose population is actually quite literate?
Quote: | And even if they did happen to be inspired by Dazai Osamu (whose suicide is kind of common knowledge after all) ... I see no undertones or message whatsoever, but they clearly only used it as an excuse to include fanservice and comedy relief and to make Ohana save a customer. Not to mention that final superficial, cheesy speech leading to a happy end, which would make Dazai turn over in his grave. |
Like I said, satire.
It may not have undertones, but it may have some as well. Included fanservice doesn't mean it excludes anything else how this character is portrayed. I think we better leave the meaning to it's intended audience.
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maaya
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:15 am
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why not? simply because for now every Japanese person I met, that wasn't a university professor or literature student, had heard the names of Dazai Osamu or Shiga Naoya etc (with older people, 40+, knowing them better than the younger ones) and nothing more. And the intended audience of the show certainly aren't literature students or a similar group, so the "satire" would be just as lost on the average otaku viewer as on the average western otaku viewer. Until I see any indication of this in an interview etc. "they just wanted to include a funny character to mess around with the girls" seems a much more likely explanation to me. This isn't Aoi Bungaku oO
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Swissman
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 793
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:34 am
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maaya wrote: | why not? simply because for now every Japanese person I met, that wasn't a university professor or literature student, had heard the names of Dazai Osamu or Shiga Naoya etc (with older people, 40+, knowing them better than the younger ones) and nothing more. |
You have quite a different experience than I have, that's all I can say.
Quote: | And the intended audience of the show certainly aren't literature students or a similar group, so the "satire" would be just as lost on the average otaku viewer as on the average western otaku viewer. Until I see any indication of this in an interview etc. "they just wanted to include a funny character to mess around with the girls" seems a much more likely explanation to me. This isn't Aoi Bungaku oO |
まぁ、どうでもいい。終わりにしようよ, お互いに ^^
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 3028
Location: Email for assistance only
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:48 am
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Alexis.Anagram wrote: |
Fronzel wrote: |
wut
The preview guide got me interested in this series...but wacky hijinks? Really? That sounds pretty awful, actually. |
And it is. I loved the first two episodes of the show, but the third actually put me off so much that I haven't picked it up again (despite telling myself I should). The "tortured author" thread was just plain un-funny and such a departure from the tone of the show up until that point that I didn't really know what to think. It was almost offensive...almost, but I wouldn't even give it that much credit.
I feel like Carl's review was pretty accurate. I disagree that Ohana was detrimentally selfish, though; to be honest, I didn't buy her transformation as such because I didn't think that she was that awful a person to begin with-- although this might be because her circumstances were so overwhelmingly negative and the people around her so completely unlikable that she appeared to be, at worst, understandably distressed. That said, I thought it was admirable that she embraced her misfortune as a challenge to succeed in spite of everything, solidifying her role as an active protagonist and giving me a reason to actively like her. I simply became disappointed in the show itself because where I expected a Fruits Basket-esque charm I was delivered a careless and discordant plot device that threw the entire story out of perspective-- and it was far too early in the series for that kind of nonsense. |
I agree with this, although I'm still watching the series. I thought that episode was rather unfunny and handled very unrealistically. I mean, the guy ties her in bondage and has her read erotic stories featuring her and her friends. Instead of defusing it with any sort of slapstick disgust, we're supposed to believe that even Ohana can see the "good" in the situation and happily accepts it. It was too weird and unnatural of a reaction.
I found Minko to be a more interesting character out of the cast. I thought the follow up hijinks with the survival enthusiasts to be a better representation of how to do comedy right in the series.
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khaos1019
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 93
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:12 pm
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I don't really think the series is aiming for tried and true realism at all, and I thought that was pretty apparent from the first episode when Ohana's mother just up and leaves her. The whole conversation between Ohana, her mother, and her mother's boyfriend was a such a jarring event mood-wise. The show has had that edge where it eschews reality from the very beginning, so all the odd little events that happen along the way in other episodes, I just took with a grain of salt.
The series is much more enjoyable if you don't try to force it into the mold of realism. Personally, I really like when it gets strange. I'm always wondering what weird thing is going to happen when I sit down to watch an episode. It's a weird little show that tries to do something different, and I'm on board with that.
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Kit-Tsukasa
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 930
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:39 pm
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To be honest, I think people are giving this series less credit than it deserves. A lot of the bias I've been hearing lately about this show is that it's too much slice-of-life. I agree with khaos1019 that if you put that whole realism bias aside, this is a really enjoyable show, and definitely more than pretty much every other show out there this season (barring Ano Hana since that show is a class of its own).
The story is probably the only rating that I actually agree with the review at the moment. It has been significantly lacking ever since the strong start, in which I hope they eventually turn this around. I'm not going to argue music since I have a bias for sphere. Animation, it's not as pretty as some of P.A. Work's previous titles like CANAAN or Angel Beats! but certainly still impressive. Also trying not to set my bar too high after seeing Madoka's animation. Not commenting on sub rating since I don't watch CR's for this one.
Anyways I digress... point, however, is that this show is not something you can really expect much out of. We're talking about a girl who has basically needed to fend for herself since kindergarten because of "uncaring" parent(s). If anything, you can kind of think of it like Kemono no Souja Erin's coming of age story. While this show probably doesn't show any signs of becoming a piece of work like that, it certainly has that potential if properly executed. It really lies in the ability of Mari Okada, who has been basically writing the series composition for most of the major titles lately (Gosick, Ano Hana, Kuroshitsuji, Fractale, Hourou Musuko, Toradora!, Vampire Knight, CANAAN, Otome Youkai Zakuro, True Tears, Sasami Magical Girl Club, Kodomo no Jikan, etc...). Of course, these were really hit or misses in the end.
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