Forum - View topicDour &/or depressing anime.
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 |
Author | Message | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||||
Now that I am more confident that i understand what this is about I would like to take this opportunity to plug my favorite anime Ergo Proxy. I wouldn't call it depressing but it is certainly dark and endlessly informative. And when I say that I am not talking about the numerous literary reference (which is not only nothing more than intellectual name dropping but is the weakest part of the show because it only serves to convolute messages) instead I am referring to the very heady ideas like the invention of religion and shattering innocence it is able to tackle effortlessly by using robots of all things. Of course Ergo Proxy can never truly fit your classification because its endlessly entertaining
|
||||||||
nobahn
Subscriber
Posts: 5139 |
|
|||||||
I shall respond first to poilk92 before responding to Zin5ki.
poilk92-- Looking over our postings that refer to each other, I am struck by the rather odd thought that we are talking past each other. I am invariably referring to Key's post and I also allude to the context of his post; you, meanwhile, hardly ever refer to either at all.
It was in the context of answering this question that Key was referring to Barefoot Gen as "rare". I rather suspect that Barefoot Gen was the ONLY anime that he could think of that fit the criteria that he laid out -- although that might not necessarily be the case.
Referring to the three sentences that I highlighted above, please allow me to offer the opinion that one person's quality entertainment is another's dreck -- and vice versa, of course! I was merely attempting to identify other anime that might fit Key's criteria. It was never my intent to imply that Key's formulation is some axiom that everybody must respect. What I meant was that given Key's CRITERIA, what anime would, ah, fit the bill, as it were? Looking over this posting, it strikes me that I might still be talking past you and missing your points. Please do not hesitate to tell me if that is, in fact, the case. |
||||||||
nobahn
Subscriber
Posts: 5139 |
|
|||||||
Zin5ki-- 1st of all, please allow me to say that I've invariably enjoyed reading your postings. "I do not consider the proposed titles, viz. Elfen Lied and Now and Then, Here and There, to meet these conditions." As far as Elfen Lied is concerned, I am not concerned if you fail to find my arguments persuasive (Hell, I'm ambivalent about them myself!); and as far as Now & Then, Here & There is concerned you may feel whatever you want to in regard to that series -- all I have to say is that if you found it entertaining, then you, ipso facto, have a hell of a LOT of tolerance for Sturm und Drang (at least, much more than what I possess). As for myself, it's simply not my cup of tea; it's simply too damned depressing! In regard to your two questions, I can only say this -- and hope that it satisfies your curiosity: I believe that entertainment is in the eye of the beholder. That was one of my reasons for initiating this thread: I wanted to see how people would classify/categorize various anime given Key's criteria -- of course, the context in which Key submitted his criteria is quite important; so i provided links to the thread in question. If I have failed to answer your questions to your satisfaction, then please do not hesitate to ask for clarification. |
||||||||
dageiver
Posts: 39 |
|
|||||||
I know it was mentioned before but I found the ending of Texhnolyze to be really depressing. There is a lot of anime that deals with the subject material it covered but not many made it feel quite as real as terrifying. Ergo Proxy was also similar.
Although many will probably think it strange to bring it up but I found the ending of 5 centermeters per second to be absolutly soul crushing. spoiler[The way Takaki Tōno is unable to find closure in his life and is stuck while the rest of the world moves on was heart breaking. The rail way scene really got to me. Its generally used as a story device for bringing people together but here Makoto Shinkai uses it to acheive the exact opposite.] |
||||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||||
To the contrary, every time I referred to your first post i.e. every time I post, I was referring to key. Furthermore after reading much of the linked thread I am very familiar with the context and that is actually what inspired my comment to Zin5ki. The particular discussion in that thread was about an anime that very few people enjoyed or found entertaining but they felt good about watching it because they learned something from it. Hence my suggestion to Zin5ki to try to find an anime that could also fit that description. And taking half a sentence out of my comment in a way that completely changes its meaning is pointless and rude. On the other hand Key's comment made it seem like he believed that the anime being discussed wasn't intended to entertain viewers, instead it was meant to inform (a sentiment I disagree with, because it sounds more like that particular anime was designed with shock value in mind more than anything else). Hence my though that THAT was your intent. Then of course there is your part of the post and the title of this thread which conveys a completely different goal, that you are discussing depressing or dark anime in general. My comments might seem disjointed but that is only because I am throwing out ideas trying to find what you actually intended the frame of the discussion on this thread to be. To be honest i would find any one of those three possible interpretations of your original post interesting but i would like some degree of focus and I'm just disappointed that you completely ignored the content of what i said and replied with what amounts to "lol wut?" I am not trying to antagonize you in anyway and as a big fan of dark anime I am interested to see where this discussion goes and was just asking you to provide a little focus or direction before this just becomes a 100 page thread of people just listing anime that has mad them sad |
||||||||
Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
|
|||||||
Before I comment upon your reply, nbahn, I would like to express my gratitude for your compliments.
I generally concur with statements in this spirit, but I also desire that more precision is used when expressing them. Most folk can comprehend what it means for an x to be in the eye of the beholder — or at least, they do to a degree sufficient for them to use the phrase during conversation and general argument — though we require more detail than this locution offers if it is to help us attain a formal understanding of what this x actually is. Presumably, the phrase suggests that an analysis of the meaning of sentences uttered about x, where x denotes "entertainment" in this instance, must necessarily call upon facts about the speaker. But which facts? Their emotional responses, their evaluative attitudes towards these responses, or something else besides? I suggest that if we select the second of these options, we arrive at an understanding of "entertainment" that explains the differences in the extents to which we have used the term in this thread. The fact that only one of us considers depressing anime to be entertaining might be equivalent to suggesting that I somehow value the catharsis brought about a depressing anime, whereas you do not. As you can perhaps expect, my inclusion of the term "somehow" indicates that more thought needs to be given to the matter. To summarise, whilst I may stand in agreement with your proposal, I do not fully understand what it is with which I am agreeing. This may indicate a flaw on my part, insofar as I am willing to agree with a sentence prior to scrutinising its semantics in full. |
||||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||||
Sounds like he is just saying lets agree to disagree tbh
Last edited by poilk92 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
egoist
Posts: 7762 |
|
|||||||
Looks like people tend to create threads about depressive anime, but I hardly see any about anti-depressive anime. Huh.
Not exactly belittling the anime, but at some point the amount of deaths became quite funny to me. I believe it was the death of an officer that got me finding such events funny spoiler[(quite sure it was the heroine's doctor who died after giving her the remaining pills).] I really liked the anime, though. It has an open ending, but quite easily understandable despite the lack of explanations within the anime itself. I'd say I find Evangelion quite depressing; or at least used to. I was somewhat similar to the protagonist at some point in my life (cowardish... cornered rat, etc.) so I could relate. Gungrave also got me depressed up to my fourth or so re-watch. Brandon went through such a hardship despite all the odds against him, and even doing what he did. Bokurano could be quite depressing, too. It looks pretty crappy in the beginning, but as the episodes go by and becomes more and more absorbing and finally makes some sense as the characters die off (developed characters dying, you see). The ending, though, while depressing, didn't really provide the results I wanted. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not exactly the most outstanding in my list, though. But then again, while I call it depressing I consider it quite inspiring. Monotony kills, and after the storm there's always... lots of broken houses. |
||||||||
Shiyonasan
Posts: 30 |
|
|||||||
The first half of Nobody's Boy: Remi is very depressing in my opinion. Remi (the main character) goes through so much in so little time. A lot of deaths and saddening moments occur in that series. The weird thing though is spoiler[after the death and funeral of Vitalis, the series mood lightens up a lot. When Mattia is introduced, the series becomes somewhat comedic and seems a lot more like a kids show up until the ending.] Still, it remains one of my favorite series of all time, spoiler[despite the depressing first half...]
I'd also have to agree with Barefoot Gen and Now and Then, Here and There. Both very somber anime... Monster can be depressing sometimes, but I actually found it to be more dark and unsettling then depressing to be honest. spoiler[That ending still confuses me to this day...] |
||||||||
ClownFREAK
Posts: 29 |
|
|||||||
I think GANTZ would fit into the category (I know its hated by many), but it is a life and death struggle that seems unfair, cruel, sadistic, and for the most part hopeless, I also think that the part when spoiler[they kill the green onion Alien] was one of the most messed up things i've seen.[/b]
|
||||||||
Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||||||
As I think poilk92 suggested, maybe it would be better to ask what anime can be viewed in regard to its ability to inform rather than its ability to entertain. That is not to say that such an anime *cannot* also be entertaining, but that it isn't the entertainment aspect that we're concerned with at the moment.
Someone brought up documentaries, which are clearly shows whose primary goal is (supposed to be) to inform. Yes, they are often dramatized for various reasons, some of which *can* be in order to help keep the viewers' interest and focus. Of course, just how the information is delivered can affect how it is regarded by the recipient, which is another reason why drama and emotion are often used when matters are supposed to be purely informative (you see this all the time in newpaper articles). Anime is, from what I've seen of it, very rarely intended by the authors to be primarily informative. Often the creators use situations similar to those in the real world in order to add versimilitude to a story, and thus increase the emotional impact, or at least its acceptance. But too much of this can cause rejection as we really don't want to watch anime that reminds us too much of the mundane or harsh realities of the real world. I, at least, do not watch anime in order to be informed, at least not on any sizable scale. Maybe informed about small things, like in The Sacred Blacksmith where it goes into the traditional steps in creating a katana: but that world is a fantasy environment. The informative nature of creating a katana is used to strengthen the internal reality of *that* world by this particular similarity to this one, and that strengthens the emotional value -- the entertainment found -- in the anime. Entertainment can be found from a great variety of things, both pleasant and unpleasant, positive and negative. The main thing is that these things create an emotional response, or better yet an emotional connection between the viewer and the subject. Anime can do this very well, at least for me. I can't think of a single anime I've seen whose primary intent was to inform. I can't even think of any that were so unentertaining that they became informative almost by default. I can't imagine any maker of anime wanting to create something where entertainment was to some degree not intended and attempted, or that such an idea would be funded if someone thought of it. Maybe something about Japanese history or culture (as in, a documentary), but certainly not a regular anime for general audiences. Okay. That's WAAAAAY too much rambling on from me. Hopefully I'm not too off-base with where the OP was coming from. |
||||||||
krystallinity
Posts: 21 |
|
|||||||
In my opinion, Endless Eight reflects the deplorable state of the Anime industry, whereby exploiting stereotypes the industry is inevitably failing. It's difficult to find a series in the current season that doesn't have moe / ecchi / some other perverted fetish as either a primary or auxiliary feature of the Anime. Like anything, oversaturation of the market has led to a crash. Otakus grow tired with fetishes, while the industry continues to fade into obscurity and reclaim its former niche status. In that sense, I could probably use any 2009-2010 cookie-cutter fetish Anime as an example of a depressant. Endless Eight "pours salt into an open wound." It reflects the increasingly pervasive predictability of Anime. The Japanese have a nasty habit of settling into familiarity. I attribute this to diffusion in science: molecules move from a high to low concentration gradient until equilibrium is reached. Essentially, Anime continues to sacrifice identity for the perceived largest gain in profitability until all Anime titles are at equilibrium, i.e., identical. However, I did not necessarily find Endless Eight to be informative. Instead, I believe it was whole-heartedly intended by the creators as entertainment.
Like any medium of entertainment, Anime relies on the element of drama to fashion a story. As Joseph Campbell's "The Hero's Journey" is for literature, Anime follows a set path with acceptable constraints and a degree of surreal fantasy in order to market a profitable show. Anime is catered to comfort the watcher. That also explains why isn't there any genuinely scary horror Anime. For true horror does not entertain - it frightens - to the extent where the network would lose viewers as a result. I agree with you, Tuor. From my conclusions, I can't see any way that Anime, or any drama for that matter, is intended to inform, despite the breadth of philosophy within the series. Endless Eight, by comparison, is done to entertain an ailing fanbase. Quite depressing in its own right. |
||||||||
Kruszer
Posts: 7992 Location: Minnesota, USA |
|
|||||||
I'm also drawing blank on depressing things that would qualify as informative rather than the usual "Lets manipulate the viewer into feeling like hammered s***" kind.
|
||||||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group