Forum - View topicAquarion/Other Mechas: Rip Offs of Other Mechas?
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Elfen12
 Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Well... I finished Aquarion the other week... i must say its quite good in my opinion... but thats beside the point. I've read and heard from a number of ... "sources" one could say, that they havn't liked this anime becuase it was... well... bringing many other Mecha ideas together into one anime. Many of the Mecha animes (Aquarion, RahXephon, ect... )that have been released these days (this year and last) have been critized for having this "problem". But... is it really a problem? Is it so bad to use some elements from other animes and then mix them with one's own ideas? If you look at any sort of Genre of animes, one could say that the ones coming out these days in that genre, are doing the same thing . Yet it seems to be rather prevalent in the criticisms of new Mecha series' and not so much in other Genres.
In my opinion, any mecha series that is supposed to be "thrillerish" or "epic" (if you know what i mean) that is coming out, will have this problem in the eyes of fans and viewers. I think this becusae most Mecha's these days are of large robots fighting (instead of doing household chores, or working as a teacher or some other random activity) becuae it just suits large robots; i'd be more interesting to see a large robot controlled by someone fight then to say... do the laundry or vaccum the city (because of its immense size). So many will look at a new series and say, oh this is just like Neon Genesis Evangelion and perhaps in the future people may say, oh this is just like RahXephon which is just like "this" which is just like ... and so on. This may be rather overexageratory but it conveys my point. In my opinon, it is fine to use other elements from other animes to any extent so long it isn't an acutal copy of that anime. My question here is, what are your opinons on taking elements form other animes and using them to form new animes, and if you have seen any recent mecha animes, if you believe the makers have done this to make their anime(s), or not, and what your thoughts are on it. -Elfen12- |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Imitation is the best form of flattery.
You need to put in perspective that there really is nothing like an original idea anymore. Neon Genesis Evangelion did not appear out of thin air. It heavily borrows themes from Space Runaway Ideon (among other 80s Mecha Anime). RahXephon borrows just as much from Mazinger Z than NGE. Just look at Code Geass, which takes many different elements in order to create an amalgamated super show. It borrows from Gasaraki and Eureka 7, not to mention Death Note (which isn't Mecha, but still). I have no objection to shows taking elements and ideas from previous shows; it is a necessary part of life and the arts. Artists are always influenced - consciously or not - by those who came before them. And you can extend it to include areas outside art, like philosophy and law. I think that Kantianism is right and utilitarianism is wrong: does that make me a bad person for adopting some of Kant's beliefs and writing about them in an essay? As long as it isn't blatant plagiarism, and there is some sort of new "take" put on it, using other people's ideas is alright. A world where you cannot use what has gone before would be stale and stagnant. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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My problem is that I'll most likely forget about one series if one with similar themes reaches a more affecting conclusion: I found The End Of Evangelion to be traumatising and harrowingly unforgettable, yet the last two episodes of RahXephon to be spoiler[a happy ending by means of overwriting the entire plotline]. Judged on their own merits both series have as much to recommend as each other, but my desire for a series wherein the essence and fate of a fictional humanity is revealed need only be fulfilled by a single anime; that being the former of the two. No doubt dedicated mecha fans will find similar series to be equally favourable, but as someone who doesn't think that deep symbolism and fantasy metaphysics need be paired with giant robots I feel that such shows are in competition with each other, and that the one I find most absorbing becomes the only one that I need remain a fan of. |
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undeadben
 Posts: 1212 Location: West Texas |
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I'm not even going to get into the mecha discussion; I'm not really a mecha fan. I hate Eva, can't tell one Gundam from another, and my favorite mecha are the ARX-7 Arbalest and Escaflowne and I'll probably be laughed at for saying so. But as for originality in anime, or any medium, its a tough thing to do. Unless a creator has a lot of confidence in what he/she is doing and is proven enough for a production company to take a shot on there won't be a lot of original stuff coming. And sometimes I can see why. Sometimes I'll watch a show and think, 'boy, this is a big piece of turd,' and the next instance, 'well, it is original.' As if the originality of the show explains why it is so bad. And in a lot of cases it's true. When you do see something original, often times it looks like they put so much work into making it different that it seems like they forgot it also had to be interesting or entertaining. If that happens and fans don't like it, I imagine, there'll probably be one less production company that'll take on another original product in the future. And while something that lacks originality sometimes can look tired, often if there is enough work done to make it look a bit fresh, it'll work just as well as it did in the other shows the concept was taken from. That is why proven things sell. I'm imagining it is no different for all the different mecha anime that take good concepts from each others. And good things also often inspire. I think it isn't always the case that a show is taking aspects from another just for marketing purposes. Sometimes creators will really appreciate something they saw in another program and probably think, 'I'd like to do something like that too.' And they'll take that aspect and incorporate it into their own show. It makes the new work less original, true, but if it is still entertaining and enjoyable, or there might just be a certain trait to the show that is that, to fans then it doesn't really matter. I'm watching this romance comedy right now that has nothing to do with mecha. But to prove a point on originality, the show has none. I can almost predict everything that is going to happen in each and every scene just from my vast viewing of other romantic comedies. But to me the characters' relationship is so cute and sort of fresh that it helps mask the un-originality of the plot. In short, I don't mind shows not being original as long as they're still entertaining or enjoyable in some way. If I like a certain anime I don't care if there are a hundred people complaining that it was so unoriginal, I still liked it. |
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Elfen12
Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Yeah it is true to an extent that almost all animes do take elements form others to incorporate it into their own shows... and then yeah when they do try to make it original they put much to work in doing so thus we have an original show, that is just.... not good.... Or do we. Is it literally that the show was made bad becuae the show was, one could say, thought about to hard. They put to much into the actual originality that the rest of the show sucked. Or is it that we're just not used to it, i mean some of the most original shows (which still do have bits of elements from other animes) such as Serial Experiments Lain or Boogiepop Phantom are the most controversial... is that becuase some people really didn't like them , and if so is it becuase it was too original? or is it becuase they wern't use to the fact that some may say it is original, and that they may perfer that it had elements from other animes of and not of that genre. Thats just a thought that came to mind that i expanded.
But when a show is so original that you can predict what will happen in every scene, and can even possibly predict what the next scene will be... well does that make it enjoyable? Good and enjoyable can be two different things if you make them to be. A show may be good because its elements are well played, but is it enjoyable? Just another thought that came to mind. -Elfen12- |
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Labbes
 Posts: 890 |
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"There is nothing new under the sun" - I don't know who said that, and I don't know if that's exactly how that person said it, but it remains, in my opinion, true.
Every anime takes elements that have been used in other anime, or, going even further, in general stories/lore before. There is nothing bad about that, I think. However, I think you can overdo it. I will give you an example. In German schools, we have this thing called "Facharbeit". It's basically a paper (I think that's the equivalent in English), a kind of essay where you write about 8 pages about a topic you choose. However, this is not just claiming information together from the internet or books, you should try to do something new, to create something. This can be really hard, but I think it's the same with stories. I think every story should give the viewer the feeling of seeing something new, of discovering something. Most of the time this will be the characters themselves, or in Aquarion, it would possibly be the mechas. Stereotypes are used very often, as a short characterization for a side character. For me, a show/story is bad if the stereotypes are way overused, meaning they let you "discover" all the characters and even their future development with one short glimpse. I can't think of a proper anime example, but I think most of you should have come across Eragon, either the book or the film. Eragon totally ripped of Star Wars, which itself had possibly ripped off other stories. However, Eragon overdid it and did not let me "discover" anything - at this point, I would say: Yes, the rip-off is "bad". Edit: About Serial Experiments Lain being original: I heard some people say they thought the series took a lot of elements from the Hyperion books... |
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undeadben
Posts: 1212 Location: West Texas |
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It depends on what what the individual viewer can get from a show like that. If there is nothing then no, there won't be any enjoyment or entertainment. The romantic comedy I mentioned in my post (Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu for those wondering) will seem incredibly dull for those who do not like cute characters and romantic stuff. I can see the show getting a lot of bad ratings if people not normally fans of this type of show get a look at it because it is too unoriginal to draw attention to itself in any other way. But for me, I'm really enjoying watching the developing relationship between the main characters, there is a certain freshness to them, and I can enjoy the show despite the predictability of the plot. And I have enjoyed other anime in the same way. And with that, I've taken enough away from this topic. Sorry about that. On with the originality, or lack of originality, in mecha anime discussion! I'm sure people a lot more knowledgeable than myself on that will chime in. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Far too often people get the idea of "copying" mixed up with "genre". You look at any genre and there are always common elements in most series, and mecha is no exception to that. The main difference is that mecha is a somewhat smaller genre, and a bit less defined, which is dominated by a number of series that are considered absolute classics. Unfortunately this results in every series that follows being compared to those, and often people see those genre similarities as copying or imitation, when those elements themselves are often not even original to the series they claim was copied.
Generally claims like that are completely ludicrous and unfounded, and simply fanboys irritated that something else might be a "threat" to their favorite title. This occurs throughout many genres, and even across mediums as you often see when anime fans attack mediums outside of anime. Unless they provide a particularly well thought out argument to support the claim, generally it's just best to ignore those types, it's not worth being concerned about. |
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bonbonsrus
 Posts: 1537 Location: Michigan, USA |
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That which has been is what will be, that which is done what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.~Ecclesiastes 1:9 This is true, and I think Keonyn made a great point, copying and being in the same genre do get confused, and it seems to be most frequent in this mecha genre. A lot of the harem anime seems much the same, but the people who enjoy harem don't complain as vocally that they are all the same, ripped off each other, and un-original. If you like a show, even if it has heavily borrowed elements from other anime in the same gerne, it shouldn't be any reason to like it less. Un-original doesn't have to mean un-enjoyable. |
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abynormal
 Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
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There we go. Also consider that when a particular mecha designer's work becomes well-known, he'll be hired by someone else and you'll see certain design elements reappear in other works. It may not be copying, but just a particular designer's style you're seeing. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I'm actually a big fan of the "upgrade" approach myself. Take something that's good but slightly flawed, fix it and mix it up a bit, put out a superior product (RahXephon) or take several ideas and combine them (Aquarion). Granted it doesn't always work but lots of times you end up with something really cool.
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Elfen12
Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Yes i'd have to agree with Keonyn's point, it is the most realistic but i think everyone made a good point... its interesting how it is like that with the Mecha Genre becuase he's right, Mecha is a rather small genre, and the possibilities one might say are rather limited... "one might say". And as much as i agree with Keonyn's point, i don't believe that its "ludicrous" but rather that its just immature.
Also exaclty, i believe that Un-original doesn't have to mean Un-enjoyable as well. However i do believe that this also happens somewhat in the Romance genre as well. It also seems like it is a rather small genre and only a few ideas may be incorporated. Such ideas may be 2 (of Opposite sex) are the main characters, falling in love, one of them (or both) have some sort of super natural power, the girl is an alien of some sort/kind, ect... . I may be going out on a limb here, and i don't mean to offend anyone here, simply a thought. I'm curious if others may agree or disagree, thoughts on it? |
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G-mofactor
 Posts: 797 Location: Atlantis to Interzone |
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This brings back memories in the kind of predicament and discussion amongst fans about the anime, Gundam Seed. Its premiere debut in the television, brought anime fans to excitement while others complain about it taken other elements from the previous Gundam series. Although, I can't complain because such things does happen in time, and it seems to me that a lot of the people do like the series. Like me, whenever I find something that is a bit familiar to the other series that I have watch like NGE to Fafner, I gave incarnations, or so called "rip-offs", or whatever a chance because its not like they are duplicates. If they are like duplicates, to me isn't worth watching anymore the second time. However, it does sometimes happen like the animes, Sky Girls and Strike Witches. When anime's do spawn incarnations or imitations, I continue watching it if it only brings a bit of nostalgia; or stop dead on the spot in an episode if the anime just bores me to sickness, because its like a carbon copy. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18493 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The problem with Aquarion isn't that it recycles idea; probably 98% of the anime made in the last 15 years does that to some degree. The problem with Aquarion is that it tries to recycle every mecha idea and mix them all together in a blender. Especially in its early going, it seems to want to be all things to all kind of mecha fans, and that kind of approach rarely works.
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Elfen12
Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Well i mean mixing all the Mecha elements and themes and what not into one anime could be a good idea... i think the idea looks really good on paper, but putting it into action became a bit of a let down, in the eyes of peole who may think this way. I can see how one might be able to say that Aquarion mixes all the ideas into one... but it seems as though fans said that about RahXephon and some may even say Neo Ranga ( i watched it, and i think it isn't like other mechas). I think that this chain of Mechas and other Genres of animes that come out in the future will continue to have this "problem" if one may say its a problem (i acutally don't think its much of a problem, but i can understand how some may think it is... but remember it aint' easy to be original). Perhaps one must look past that idea of an anime having elements that another previous one pocesses... but then, that isn't always easy, our brains will recognize elements automatically... but who knows. (rambling)
-Elfen12- |
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