Forum - View topicVinland Saga (TV) (all seasons).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
|
Harleyquin
Posts: 2938 |
|
||
|
#9
Considering the numbers the retainers had on their side and Einar's almost non-existent combat ability, the result of the fight surprised me. Thorfinn is so badly out of practice he ends up comatose first and it's Einar's bloody-minded conviction for his ruined harvest that carries the day. Even the retainers gave up banking on the knowledge that they would get away with it since slaves cannot pick fights against retainers under any circumstances. The bulk of the episode is another introspection into Thorfinn's mind. Hard to say if he had a vision being so close to death, but the experience has almost certainly given back the drive he used to have when consumed with vengeance. Having finally remembered what his father Thors used to say, it's going to be even more difficult for Thorfinn to fulfil what he strives to do in an age where violence is a fact of life and swearing it off is a sure-fire way to lose lives post-haste. The other big surprise is Pater pulling through for Einar and Thorfinn. Looking at the state of his tunic during the hearing, it looks like he must have been working the ravaged field for clues shortly after hearing about the fight to see what he could do. Having found the shirt button, it's enough for Ketil to pass judgment absolving the pair. Pater knew that finding evidence against the retainers would make him even more unpopular, but he sided with Einar and Thorfinn knowing the consequences. The pair of them will have no choice but to do more chores for Sverkel to get another chance at more supplies for another round, but more time is required as they'll have to clear another patch of forest. They're in it for the long haul, but if the retainers don't bully them further they have a fighting chance. Looks like next week the focus shifts back to Cnut. I wonder if it's going to tell the story of how he claims Denmark as well as England to his dominions. |
|||
|
|||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
Oh, how those rash words came back to haunt me in episode 9. A dream/vision sequence that took up almost the entire episode. I dare not complain again for fear of having to slog through a 10 episode dream arc as retribution for my temerity. In any case, Thorfinn emerges from it with an answer to the existential question: wtf do I do now? He is going to embrace pacifism and atone for his past murderous activities. As Harleyquin pointed out above, he's in a bad era and geographic location to try and pull that one off. Also, at the risk of being labelled a Freddie Frowner, I just don't think the rest of Vinland Saga is going to be devoted to a gentle recording of Thorfinn's slow passage to becoming a free man, his career as a farmer, getting married, having kids and dying peacefully of old age in bed surrounded by friends and family. Just a hunch. On a personal note... I am now the proud owner of the first 12 hard cover volumes of Vinland Saga. Tally ho! (Pretty sure that's what Viking warriors yelled when charging into battle, right?) |
|||
|
|||
ACｘS
 Posts: 951 |
|
||
|
9:
I just wonder how Thorfinn's pacifism and antiviolence will change the course of the story. It's an interesting turn of events, especially when it 11th century Northern Europe was a hellish time (actually, 11th century was simply a hellish time everywhere). |
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
|
Episode 10
Is it just me or was The Master telling Einar and Thorfinn they'd have to wait for their freedom until he got back from Jelling a huge death flag for him? A Canute-centric episode and it's interesting to compare his situation to Thorfinn's. They are the complete opposite ends of the social scale - king and slave - but both are haunted by their past actions (and in Canute's case, present actions as well). Thorfinn is haunted by the nameless multitudes he killed as a warrior and Canute is working on his second regicide (I know he wasn't the one who actually detached his father's head from his shoulders, but it was done on his behalf.) Killing a beloved brother must sting a little more than offing a hated father. Canute is cursed with ambition and employs the ruthless logic characteristic of kings: "There can't be two kings so of course you have to go, dear brother. Nothing personal." Thorfinn has decided to atone for his past deeds, even going so far as to muse whether it might be possible to end war and slavery. Canute has come to no such reckoning. He seems to accept that maintaining his rule will entail doing things that make him chat with the vision of his decapitated father. As my dear mother often says, "It's a great life if you don't weaken." |
|||
|
|||
|
Harleyquin
Posts: 2938 |
|
||
|
#10
I've been wondering for a while how Thorfinn and Canute could possibly meet again, and now I have my answer. Three years have passed since the first failed harvest, and without harassment from the retainers Einar's farming knowledge coupled with the pair's hard work ensures they can clear an entire forest for cultivation. After that, it's a matter of time and luck for the harvests to come to fruition, and it appears the pair did enough to finish what Ketil set them to do. I anticipate Ketil won't die in Jelling, but he may not be able to honour his promise because he has lost the protector keeping his estate safe. Canute might not provide the same security assurance Harald did, especially as we know from the historical record he had to fight several wars to secure the claim to his brother's throne. We do not know actually know how Harald died because the extant historical records say almost nothing about this. Perhaps he was poisoned by Canute as the author insinuates, there is no concrete evidence firmly disproving this hypothesis. Coupled with the mysterious deaths of his Saxon competitors in England, it is a very plausible theory which is being pursued in this series. Canute might just have been fortunate that all of his rivals suffered from the poor health typical of his period when nutrition wasn't understood. Regardless, he is having to deal with the guilt of poisoning, even an older brother who supported him during his invasion of England and who didn't actively encourage court intrigue when Sven was stilll alive isn't vulnerable to Canute's predations. Perhaps for him the ends do justify the means, but if he keeps up his monologue within earshot of others it's going to lead to undesirable consequences. If war does come to Ketil's estate, what is Thorfinn going to do now that he has sworn off violence? Is he going to make a break for Vinland and live out the rest of his life there far away from conflict in Europe? Or will he break his vow as Canute will either kill him for his association with Askeladd or rehire him in gratitude for previous service and knowledge of his skills? |
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
|
I hope I am wrong about Ketil dying at Jelling. He is clearly a decent man. His wealth appears to have been generated by fair means. Yes, he has slaves, but he does offer a path to freedom for some of them which no doubt was more than a lot of Masters did.
... Yeah, he's toast. |
|||
|
|||
A Mystery
 Posts: 1888 Location: Netherlands |
|
||
|
I also thought the death flag was quite clear, but there's always the possibility that Ketil will just have problems protecting his land with Harald dying. I still think death is a high probability. Storywise it would be interesting to see the incapable son taking 'the reins' of the land. Since he can be easily influenced, he's bound to make some sketchy choices. Either way: probably bad news for Thorfinn and friend and their quest for freedom.
If Thorfinn ever returns, I doubt his mother would still be alive since they gave the impression of her having a frail body. |
|||
|
|||
|
ACｘS
Posts: 951 |
|
||
|
10:
Of course he's gonna die. We always need a catalyst for something bad to happen. And for him to hand Einar and Thorfinn a freedom card just like that? They're not gonna get it. Would be too anticlimactic for him not to die. |
|||
|
|||
|
A Mystery
Posts: 1888 Location: Netherlands |
|
||
|
But... if Ketil dies, what would happen to his pretty slave? Would Einar live happily ever after with her? I mean, Ketil's wive wouldn't wanna keep her in her property.
Tough choice: freedom or love he he. And then Thorfinn finds out he has always been secretly in love with Einar and forgets his quest for freedom and equality for all. A bitter love triangle starts. |
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
|
Fujoshi in da house!
|
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
|
Season 2, Episode 11
Oh dear. Frankly, I was surprised that Ketil took Olmar into the audience with Canute along with Thorgil since the odds of Olmar doing something embarrassing were roughly 100%. It seems pretty clear that Olmar will be joining the king's retinue just long enough to be provoked into a faux pas that will "justtify" Ketil's farm being requisitioned. Yes, that's Ketil's reward for owning a well-run, productive farm: to draw the attention of an ambitious king who needs what all ambitious kings do: money. Ketil's father will not be surprised by the coming turn of events. Good on Canute for using his comely sister (to whom he used to bear an uncanny resemblance in his younger days) to distract this sparring partner. As Homer Simpson, once said of alcohol and which I convert to a different use: "Women... the cause of and solution to all of our problems." Anyway, given the upcoming transfer of power with the farm and the fact that Leif finally has some accurate info on Thorfinn's whereabouts, I assume Thorfinn's days as a slave (and by extension Einar's) are drawing to a close. |
|||
|
|||
|
ACｘS
Posts: 951 |
|
||
|
11:
Seeing Leif Erikson always puts a smile on my face. So now, Canute needs more money but doesn't want to make more at the expense of the (English) commoners because, well, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hence, he simply yoinks land from rich landowners. First victim of the day: Ketil. As for his son, I'm not exactly sure what Canute wants to do with him but there's definitely a "scapegoat" tagged to the plan. But now that Canute will take Ketil's land, aka the one Thorfinn is almost done working on and is planning to use to earn his own freedom, aka the one Leif is planning to visit one way or another, how will all that end up? |
|||
|
|||
|
Harleyquin
Posts: 2938 |
|
||
|
#11
So there it is. The context required to somehow reunite Thorfinn, King Canute and even Leif Ericson into the bargain. It doesn't even feel contrived either, just various circumstances coming together partly by coincidence and partly by design. Canute is told by his Captain of the Guard that the Norse only respect strength. This makes it even more ironic that Canute is the last King to hold Norway, Denmark and England as one extant territory in history despite losing four rounds against his Captain. Yet it is telling that the one round he did win was through deception, something which has defined Canute's rule to date according to this author and will continue to do so. His time with Ashkeladd certainly taught him enough about ruthless pragmatism, which he intends to exploit for the good of his kingdom even if the marked targets are sure to suffer for their misfortune. When taking Ketil into consideration, we viewers already know that his reputation as a hard man is a false one. He has lived on it all this time, accumulating much wealth in the process. But the time has come where his reputation is going to be tested for real and it is going to be found wanting. Even his son Thorgil won't be able to save him and the family holdings when the trial comes, so by extension Thorfinn and Einar will have to find a way to escape their bondage (since it's almost guaranteed Ketil will not be able to return to his farm to free them as promised). Leif Ericson provides a route out, but if he doesn't know where Ketil's holdings are they won't be able to meet even if he somehow finds a spare ship to sail. Ketil's grave mistake was bringing Olmar with him. Had he not done so, it might have bought him time as Canute would have had to consider which holdings to requisition depending on military forces stationed. Now that the scheme is being put forward, perhaps in hindsight he should have ordered Snake to seriously train Olmar enough to put him off fighting. Too late to turn the clock back though. Although the conclusion to this quarter's adaptation is fast approaching, how it ends remains up in the air for anime-only viewers. Ketil's death isn't a done deal, but it depends on how Canute goes about the scheme for requisition. Obviously killing the owners works given the proper pretext, but one of the sons serves in his retinue which complicates matters. It's also possible to requisition the lands using Olmar as the pretext; that would still require him to be duped into committing a capital crime which would cost Olmar his head and the rest of the family their lands. Ketil survives in this case, and it's probably a better scheme for Canute to employ as he rates Ketil's stewardship and would rather keep him alive working the lands he previously owned for the Danish Treasury. |
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24015 |
|
||
|
Season 2, Episode 12
We've hit the midpoint of the season and it feels like it. Up until this episode, the violence has been relatively restrained, but Olmar's predicament and Thorgil's intervention in it changed all that. Hoo-whee. Blood and chopped limbs aplenty. The poopstorm doth approacheth (and Thorfinn senses it). Looks like there will be a force of 105 men descending on Ketil's farm. I'm going on memory here, but I think that Ketil employs about 15 retainers. Not great odds but after watching Thorgil fight, plus suspecting the leader of the retainers is probably pretty skilled and if Thorfinn decides to temporarily abandon his newfound pacifist bent and return to warrior mode, I imagine a certain level of carnage could be achieved. We'll see. |
|||
|
|||
|
Harleyquin
Posts: 2938 |
|
||
|
#12
Wulf's plan is surprisingly sloppy in its execution. They knew Thorgil was the older brother, and that he was a skilled warrior. Failing to secure him so that he couldn't interfere with the fight means the result is not what Wulf and Canute expected, and the odds between Ketil and Canute's struggle are much more even than they should be. Still, Snake mentioned only 60 men would be required to seize Ketil's holdings in their entirety, and Canute is intending to bring over 102 in total, 70 of which are the fabled Jomsvikings, the best mercenaries available in this era. Sverkel is going to proven right when he says Snake hasn't met his match. More men will die at Canute's end before Ketil's holdings will fall, but they WILL fall in the end and how Einar and Thorfinn will continue their tale is up in the air. I do not expect Leif Ericson to secure him, as it would make the story end far too prematurely. Was it Wulf with the coins? If it was, I wouldn't want to be his opponent in an actual duel. Anyone who can pull off that parlour trick is not someone to mess with. We've seen what Thorkell, Floki and Thors are capable of, if we see Wulf in an actual fight (the practice duel with Canute was him holding back) it's going to be some carnage on Thorgil's level or worse. Olmar finding out that his first kill wasn't even earned fair and square is going to weigh heavily on him. He hasn't even appreciated how his pride has literally led to the downfall of his family's fortunes, even if his older brother Thorgil relishes the fight. He can't be brainwashed into continually charging willy-nilly at careless guards either, since Canute is not going to make the second mistake twice. At least the retainers in the estate can't laugh at him any longer since he has actually killed someone, fair duel or not. The biggest challenge to Thorfinn renouncing violence is about to arrive, and he probably senses it. If he does follow through on this, it's going to be huge for him but the fall of Ketil's farm will be that much faster. No idea how this is going to play out, but the second half of this adaptation is building up nicely. |
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group