Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Do Sports Anime Bomb In North America?
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belvadeer
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For what it's worth, I liked Prince of Tennis because I took tennis lessons when I was younger (though I ultimately skewed more toward racquetball in the long run). I enjoyed the dub for the show and wanted to see it in its entirety, but it disappeared from the Toonami lineup in June of 2007. I should probably get the DVD sets while still they're going for bargain prices right now.
And hey, Dragon League was a thing. I think a lot of soccer and anthropomorphic character fans would have loved to see that show beyond the first two episodes. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Which ones are bombing currently? The only one I really know about is Black Clover, which I figured as it got shoved into a later timeslot despite being only a few episodes behind.
I'm not sure of how much of that is still the case, but I always got the impression that westerners get into anime for the exoticism (and stay for other reasons, but they need to get into something first before they stay in that thing). Said exoticism is a reason I've long suspected was why One Piece had such a hard time catching on compared to Naruto and Bleach, for instance: Both of the latter are very Japanese in their premises, but One Piece is very western-influenced. The large majority of sports anime are about western sports--baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, volleyball, swimming, bicycling, tennis, boxing--and, combined with the mundane settings and mundane characters, don't really have that hook of eastern mysterious exoticism to lure people in. It was mentioned in the article that stories about martial arts DO catch on, and I think it's because THAT has that exotic feel. I'm not sure if it's a general change of culture, but I do remember before the Comics Code Authority came around, there were actually a lot of comic books focused on sports. That being said, most of them had some supernatural or fantasy element to them (and I remember one series outright called Strange Sports Stories).
Reminds me of the year when Anime Expo and the X-Games were right across the street from each other. Boy, that was an awkward few years, especially as this was before cosplay became more widely known and the X-Games people were all wondering why there were so many people in weird clothes walking around.
Regarding watching pro sports (and amateur, for that matter), the athletes are something like characters in a series, except it's actually happening and you can't necessarily tell who's going to win. Tom Brady is a good example, a man who's very skilled but also has some...personality flaws that gets people talking about him. Fans root for some teams, and some players, and root against some others. Teams get associated with the cities they're in and become part of those cities' identities too, so people watch and cheer them on out of pride for where they live (or where they used to live or where they were born or whatever).
If it comes from Jump, then it's targeting general audiences and thus not necessarily the nerds and geeks. That being said, I think there is a major cultural difference in that Japan does not have quite as sharp a line divided between intellectual pursuits and athletic pursuits as western countries do, particularly the United States. I mean, jocks and bullies exist in Japan too but aren't quite as associated with anti-intellectualism than in North America (unless you're talking about delinquents, which is a different matter), so I'd guess that the nerds and geeks in Japan aren't quite as associated with an aversion to physical activity.
Heh, good to know athletic programs in school hadn't changed a bit in culture from when you were in school to when I was in school.
You might enjoy the part in Hunter X Hunter where they play sports then, as the main adversary of that segment, Razor, has the look and feel of that Gym Teacher from Hell. They're playing for reasons other than that they really enjoy boxing or dodgeball or bowling or whatever though. All in all, I think there's a difference of culture here too, and while I understand your perspective as that's how it was like in the schools I went to, in a lot of American schools, the sports teams get a lot of prestige and respect, even from outside of the school, especially if they consistently do well in district-wide, state-wide, or regional competitions. At my high school, for instance, none of the sports teams got much respect and neither did the players care that much about playing--except for football, as there was one student in my grade who played so well that he was winning games practically all by himself and led us to a major winning streak. He got a full scholarship from a few colleges under the condition he'd play for their teams. I lost track of him after that, but I could easily see him being in the NFL.
If you take a look at the sports movies from Hollywood that have caught on, all of them, without exception, have an emphasis on the characters rather than the sport. I think of all of those, only the original Rocky was actually about someone striving to be the best, but it depicted boxing as a brutal world where people are chewed up and spat out, where our protagonist has no business being in. Caddyshack makes things surreal by being a slapstick comedy, but its characters are still relatable and feel real. Raging Bull and The Wrestler both have protagonists prone to fits of violence in which the sports they play only heighten their aggression. Angels in the Outfield, The Big Green, The Queen of Katwe, and Cool Runnings are all about players at a disadvantage giving it their all but go into societal problems that create those disadvantages. Munich is less about the Olympic Games and more about a conspiracy among athletes and their trainers arising from discrimination. And then there's Space Jam... And while not a movie, The Twilight Zone episode "The Mighty Casey" was a ratings winner back in the day too, and is still an iconic episode of the show, and that's because it dives deep into how people would react when technology allows players to far surpass human limitations. |
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Lactobacillus yogurti
 Posts: 846 Location: Latin America |
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What I tend to see is that people just don't like sports anime either because it's "too unreal" or because they'd rather see a real game.
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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@leafy sea dragon
When I said "over here", I didn't necessarily mean our sports movies, but rather how I think most of us view anime/manga sports titles. Also, I just remembered that Dodgeball is a sports movie! I still quote that thing pretty often, actually, because it's just too damn funny and I think most everyone my age seems to have see it. But it's also a comedy movie, so most of its quotability is going to come from that. Still, our sports movies are rather different from the older model of Japanese sports manga, I really hadn't even thought of that. But even if a lot of the manga sports stories are also about underdogs eventually winning, I think putting that into 1 movie vs 30+ volumes is a lot more tolerable to the average American. |
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kusanagi-sama
 Posts: 1723 Location: Wichita Falls, TX |
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Could it be that Slam Dunk did so poorly was that nobody wanted to purchase a release from Toei, given how poorly their releases were made?
Also, I'm guessing that the re-release of Initial D did poorly because the Fast and Furious craze is pretty much dead, and everyone who wanted Initial D when it first came out, owns Initial D (I'd like to own it) |
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Demonskid
 Posts: 92 |
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I will say this. I am a Fujoshi.. but that isn't why I watch sport anime. I'm actually quite picky with sport anime.. one reason was, I didn't like how sometimes it looks like they have super powers and stuff during the sport games.. That or the "Oh I never did this before but I'm a pro at it already!" type of crap gets to me when its in a sports anime.
Haikyuu is one of my favorite sport anime because it has none of that. No super powers and no "I'm an auto pro even tho I'm just a noob!" crap. Hinata only had his jump going for him.. other than that he SUCKED. I loved watching him work hard and get better at the game he loved. Same goes for Kageyama. He's good at volleyball but utter crap when it came to his teammates. Slowly with the help of his new high school team, he changes for the better. Watching them go up against other volleyball team is fun. Seeing it pretty much being called Fujoshi Bait really ticks me off.. I won't deny that I ship the characters.. I do. But that has nothing to do with why I like the show. I like it because of the story and character development.. Besides, all a fujoshi needs is an anime with two or more male main characters in it. Look at InuYasha.. Go look up KougaxInuyasha or MirokuxInuyasha.. even SesshoumaruxInuyasha.. the fanfictions, the doujinshi.. That show wasn't made for 'the fujoshi crowd' still had plenty of us fujoshi in among the fanbase, gonna say the reason that show sold was because it was for the "Fujoshi Crowd" as well? Just because a Sport show happens to have a strong BL Doujinshi and Fanfiction circle, doesn't mean it was made for the fujoshi crowd, and the fujoshi are not what made it sell! The story and characters is what made Haikyuu sell. And what sex appeal does Haikyuu have? The characters are cute.. I call them adorable.. but sexy? ... No... Yuri on Ice? Major Sexy appeal.. damn that sexy katsudon! ;3 Haikyuu? No.. ._. not sexy at all.. Sorry, I just dislike seeing anime put into categories where they don't belong. Haikyuu never was made for Fujoshi, and just because it has some fujoshi fans doesn't mean it belongs in a category with anime that are targeted to our circle. |
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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I find racing anime to be appealing despite it often being related with a "sport" simply because I like the mecha angle. I mean that in the general sense, not necissarily limited to giant humanoid robots like Gundam. That said I think Initial D doesn't have a lot going for it these days. It's old enough that a lot of more recent fans won't have heard about it. The "Ricer" car tuning scene is well past its heyday. And perhaps worst of all: it was one of those shows that mixed early CG with cel animation and it did NOT age well. |
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Яeverse
 Posts: 1144 Location: Indianapolis |
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Confused at what the writer is seeing in Haikyuu!! to have believed that the reason it got popular was because of "sex appeal", actually really confused at what the writer is seeing because theres been numerous shonen jump sports series with pretty looking characters that actually fail, so clearly there is something deeper in Shonen Jump series than just people looking at characters and going "oh pretty, need them to goo goo eye each other".
Actually further confused at how the writer is able to definitively say that people that liked Haikyuu!! somehow did not happen to watch Ace of the Diamond, its like he just picked and choosed whichever sports anime he remembered was on crunchyroll and put them there with no reason at all for doing it. Knight in the area was certainly unpopular and not watched, but Ace of the Diamond, celebrated by even fans who know Madhouse and Production IG, as well as fans of sports anime like Haikyuu!! is certainly not something that is unpopular and only for hardcore fans. Has the writer not seen how much the western fandom has embraced Sawamura, or Miyuki? Its unreal that someone with a platform such as answerman is able to write whatever they want with no accountability on their part and say and push whatever views they want like its there personal blog. If youre going to say bomb, then justify it with numbers, if youre going to say "fans interest in x didn't see x" then provide numbers to say that. |
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Whitewolf55
Posts: 12 |
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I'd actually disagree with this point. While yes they can be more effective during their runtime from my experience (and a number of my friends) that they are more affecting to the person when they are binged-what with all the cliffhangers and such. I don't think I could have watched Haikyuu, Baby Steps, Giant Killing, and Ace of Diamond if I watched them weekly. It's possible like I have with most other sport shows but it never seems to have that lasting guttural impact than if I binge/marathon |
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NJ_
 Posts: 3082 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Those single DVDs from Toei USA were indeed crap (no chapter stops, English dubtitles only, episodes going back to the menus each time) but another thing that ruined it's chance back then was no promotion for it. Same goes for Interlude and the also canceled Air Master so it wasn't alone. Then there's the most recent DVDs by Cinedigm that are English dub only with the same incomplete Toronto dub as before, killing any reason to buy that. Then there's the recent Japanese BDs which will cause problems if anyone wants to try giving it a third chance over here because the show was upscaled and done horribly thanks to Q-Tec (like Toei's other upscales done before and after).
FUNi releasing their redub out of order (Third & Fourth Stages before First & Second) was probably what killed sales for that release plus there was unnecessary heat directed at them over Third & Fourth Stage's video being letterbox because people thought the Japanese DVDs were anamorphic (they weren't, only the recent Japanese BDs were). Glad to see Sentai give it another chance with the Legend movies and get most of FUNi's dub cast back for them but the real question is if they'll get Fifth & Final Stages now? Last edited by NJ_ on Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Actually, that was part of the point: I've read a bunch of sports manga, and they tend to be more about the sport than their western counterparts. There is most definitely a character element to every successful sports manga and anime, but with a few exceptions (I can think of Slam Dunk and Yuri on Ice!), the featured sport is there for the sport rather than as a framing device or an aspect of the characters as they were in the examples I listed above. If you observe carefully, you'll notice that they tend to get into some rather long matches against opponents in which the entertainment comes from them playing and where no character growth, change, or establishment happens at all. That is, the narrative intends for you to be thrilled by them playing the sport. (But yeah, as you mentioned, this can't really be helped if it's been ongoing for so long, which I'm sure is the reason why sports TV series have historically been very rare in North America too.) The result is that said sports manga, as well as the anime they're based on, will have a hard time with people who aren't really a fan of that sport, at least among western audiences, unless that sport is explained REALLY well or it has some other way to hook people in.
Except in China, at least. (As in The Fast and the Furious.) |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 671 |
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From what I can tell you definitely have two things going on. One, there is a much bigger culture of live sports outside of one's own interaction in the states than there is in Japan. What I mean by this is that I think - and i may be wrong - that Japan overall has about the same, if not more, of a sports culture than the U.S does. However, in the U.S., that tends to extend a lot further outside of one's own household. I don't know that Japan has as much of a culture of college sports fanaticism as the U.S. does, where you get people who are die-hard fans of some school's football team even though its some college in a state they don't live in, they've never gone to, and have no family attending. In that regard, the American sports fan is all too obsessed with the stats and everything else about the real team they're rooting for than for the fictional team of an anime.
An extension of that is that most sports anime are geared towards the feeling of team work and the struggle of fighting to be great together, and eliciting what nostalgia that can generate for a population that most likely had to join a sports team or participate in a sports day at some point in their formative years. On the flip side, in the U.S, you probably only joined a sports team if you really liked that sport, and only stuck around if you planned on making a career out of it. Most schools in the U.S don't even offer P.E. in any form anymore. So that bit of nostalgia and looking to relate to the audience that most sports anime aim for is going to be almost completely meaningless to an American audience that hasn't had any real exposure to that. A large portion of the American population today could easily grow up without having had to engage in any sort of sport activity from 1st grade through college. That doesn't bode well for a small niche segment of a niche industry, especially going against well known sports they can likely go watch and follow on a daily basis elsewhere. It's only the oddities, the rarities, like supernatural butt-wrestling, or pretty boy allusions to Nancy Karrigan and Tonya Harding, or riding the celebrity wave created around swimming thanks to Michael Phelps' Olympic success, that sports anime start to reach higher levels of attention. |
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stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
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For me, I've never been as inclined towards sports anime for a variety of reasons.
I never felt the stakes were anything that I could get behind. A lot of sports anime have the end goal of going to nationals or winning the championship or beating the opposing team. I'm not a particularly competitive person by nature, so a lot of the intensity revolving around the importance of the game tends to leave me indifferent. I just don't really care who wins or loses. I might be able to empathize with the characters, but we're not on the same page. And that tends to work against me because most of the show is all about the sport which doesn't really do anything that I couldn't get from watching an actual game. When I do watch shows of this nature I tend to get trapped into rooting for other elements of the series that take a long time to develop because they are not the focal points of the show. And last but not least, these sorts of shows usually just end up making me call people up and seeing if they want to get their game on. So the shows actually get me away from my television instead of glued to the seat. When I get back, I don't really need to watch the show anymore. The itch has been scratched. That's my personal take at any rate. 
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 943 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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It's not true - not entirely, anyway - that sports fans and anime fans are completely different and there's no overlap. This actually came up as an issue when one of the local conventions managed to accidentally schedule itself on the same weekend as the AFL Grand Final (Americans, think being on at the same time as the Superbowl if you need some idea of how big a deal this is), which sparked something of a heated debate when someone on the organising committee suggested it didn't matter because anime fans didn't care about football. A friend of mine who was manning the information desk which had a television tuned into it setup there got more questions about who was winning than about anything going on at the convention while the game was on. Granted Australian sports fans are a somewhat different breed to American sports fans, but there is overlap between sports and anime fandoms.
On the other hand... sports fans who are also anime fans often, but not universally, dislike anime about sport because while they're fine with the ridiculous over-the-top BS in anime about martial arts, gunfighting, big robots, or fighting in general, their willing suspension of disbelief won't extend to a sport they're familiar with. Even when things aren't stupid over-the-top, there's still the concern about accurate details of the sport taking a back seat to the needs of drama and the story. As for myself, I have almost no interest in sports in general, and while I'm willing to give a pretty wide variety of subjects in anime a go, I just cannot engage any interest in a show where everyone's treating this that or the other sport as the most important thing in life. I see enough of that in reality. There have been some exceptions, but they're almost all in the "not really a sport, even if things mostly play out much the same way" category; Hikaru no Go, Chihayafuru, etc. And those are probably more down to the novelty of a show about go or karuta than anything else. Even the only actual sports anime I like, Taisho Baseball Girls, the fact that it's set in the Taisho era is what really interests me, not the girls playing baseball element. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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You should've seen my high school weight room. Most people would probably get the impression of a prison gym lol. In fact All Out! would be closer depiction in my case than Free! or Kuroko's basket.
it's silly to deny the fact that a lot of fans are fujoshi. The proof is in the amount of yaoi doujinshi available for it, albeit more so with other ttitles. And just because it's shounen, does not mean the publisher ignores the female fans. In fact they target all the female fans for all of the merchandise and live events. Like 99% of Kuroko's basket audience at events are female even though it's publised in mainstream shounen manga magazine |
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), to enjoy the Spirit of Youth To Its Fullest.
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