Forum - View topicWho Answers The Answerman?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Oh, get over yourself. Sorry the discussion is not to your exact liking, your highness. |
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The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Evangelion and OEL manga... Well, how can I not reply.
I often joke that Eva is a second religion, so I may be a little biased as how much I like it. It was one of the first anime I saw and I don't know if anything has quite topped it. RahXephon was good, but just didn't quite do it for me. Something about Eva's mix, even if it was a bit of spaghetti on the wall, still resonates with me. Here, have Rei wearing a frog hat. Or a Lego-like Eva. As for OEL, well, let's start with TokyoPop's first.
Spoilers - TokyoPop pushes Princess Ai because it's written by the egotistical head of the damn company. I commented about it on my blog here. (Warning: Excessive snark ahead. I was rather in a mood when I wrote it.) I constantly complain about their use of the term manga, as seen here and here on my little soap box. Actually, there's a very interesting bit from that last one. I scanned an old TokyoPop flyer that is amazing in its stupidity. In summary, while I argue about OEL manga not being actual manga, I am not against it. It's American comics by new creators. I'm happy to see that. I just hate that the company and even fans think it needs to be called by a Japanese name to be accepted. That disgusts me. That in order to sell American comics in America, you need to call them by a Japanese name. There's even one, and I saw this in a comic store's manga shelves the other day, where they published the American book right to left. That's demented. Why can't we just accept American books for themselves and not try to pretend to be Japanese? |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Because these books appeal to most of the same consumers as japanese ones? It's all comics in the end, and cyclical arguments are just a bunch of hooey. People read what they like to read, make what they want to make, and no one's trying to trick anyonelse.
Also, Stu's writing Princess Ai just adds to the wonderous nature of it's entertaining trainwreck of an existence. Stu writing is nothing new, the Legend of DJ Milky is age old news [anyone remember the series he did with Tavicat in the old Tokyopop Magazine?]. Somehow, it's actually 1/2 decent/successful too. There's a wonderful quality to badness, and I don't think TP would be the same for me without DJ Milky. It's all part of their crazy "Let's try this!" mentality that has resulted ina lot of good thing, and a lot of things that most people have forgotten about after the experiment failed :) It keeps things interesting. Plus, Princess Ai-money from books and merchandise means TP can experiment elsewhere like those nice Twelve Kingdoms novels, pushing out more Slayers novels, the occasional 70's or 60's manga like Lupin, and trying out some quirkier OEL books. Just like Naruto [which is obviously a way bigger cash cow mind you] for VIZ. |
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britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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It's weird how this all started. All I did was mention to the person who wrote about Dramacon did they realize that actions expressed by fictional charcters in a ficitional world were not on par with what real people do. As for the person who mentioned when people use the books for wrong- and even those who use video games, violent anime anything- those people are nuts. Everything has bled into one pyscho-reality for them and if they use a book or any media as a form to harm others then they need to see a shrink. Back to what you said MT. Readers have the freedom to enjoy the works or not enjoy them. Just that even though I might write a story about something horrible doesn't euqal them doing it to others in the real world. As a person who has a waaaaay over-active imagination I know that if I think of something positive then I can work towards making it happen. But on those days I fall into massive depression and feel the world coming down, I know that I can't act on hitting every slow car on the freeyway with my car. It just seems so...simple to me. And that Crispin Freeman video below. I love watching that video. Last edited by britannicamoore on Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Geez. I love it when fans think they know Japanese better than people from Japan or people who work on the show. Rather, in this case, English converted to Japanese converted back to English. Did someone say "weeaboo?" 'cause I thought I heard someone say "weeaboo." Speaking of which, I actually do have a problem with a good deal of the fan base, notably for manga and American 'manga'. This mentality that anything Japanese beats anything American and for something American to be good it has to imitate Japan is just sick. It's delusional and plain not healthy. I was in a thread about Rob Liefeld the other day and someone said they feared for the generation of kids raised on that. I said they're old hat, the 90s Image craze is over. Now we have a generation wanting to make manga and turn Japanese. For the love of crap, kids, you're not in Japan. You live in America. Hell, I have a friend living in Japan. Lord knows when or if he's coming back. He likes manga. He likes comics. Yet he knows the difference and he knows what the Japanese manga market and scene is like. The manga market and creation process is nothing like TokyoPop's or any other US company's. It's actually more like Marvel or DC than it is TokyoPop's model. I get the feeling that most manga fans don't even know how its made. They think it goes from the mangaka's pen right to their local Borders. It's a warped view of the world.
I dunno. I think TokyoPop would be a better more honest company without him. Then again, maybe I'm insane to expect some honesty in marketing. I look at the solicits for TokyoPop's books and most of the time I shake my head at the way they try to sell them. You mentioned him with studio Tavicat in the old Tokyopop Magazine. I missed that, but I do remember when he took out the music for Initial D and replaced it with his own. I remember when he sold his own pet project American 'manga' in the spotlight and continues to do so. Nevermind that this idea initially sold Courtney Love as a princess for young girls to look up to. Wow. Oh yeah, and in multiple interviews he talks about ignoring magazines (ie comics or even how Japan does manga) and comic stores and small book stores and going right for "the malls" and big book chains. Anyone with that mentality, I can't stomach. I'm sorry, but Levy is just too much glam and over hyped marketing and not enough substance for my tastes. |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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In that Crispin Freeman video -- he did a facepalm.
Well, if you want to breathe some kind of sigh of relief -- they're all sold under "Graphic Novel" within retail bookstores. It completely eliminates the "Japanese" vs "American" mentality as it allows them to sell the "two" types of products side-by-side.
Unfortunately, "quality" did play a factor in determining a "manga" vs a "non-manga" -- as noted by the lesser degree of anti-OEL material. Nice to know that some fans are giving the domestic stuff some attention.
Yet, the real world has this uncanny way of providing story ideas -- particularly anything involving drama. Often times, it's rather difficult to get an idea without some kind of real world example. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Meh, way I see it is once these kids mature some out of the Japanphile phase they're going to want to be British next cause everyone KNOWS the British do graphic novels best I'm just waiting now for them to start going around with crackpot accents. Yep, any day now. Harry Potter started a seed in them. Only a matter of time before they discover Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman. |
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silver_omicron
Posts: 132 |
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Answerman,
I think I'm just a little stressed today but as far as the EVA answer is concerned... "EVA's a great anime! Too bad something came along and completely refined the concept later." I'm sorry but... my love of Evangelion is only second to one other anime. Beyond that, I just hate it when people bash it. Not that you bashed it, but your point just feels more negative then not. Ahhh i'm so confused... |
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The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Very good point. And really, graphic novel is the best term out there. Manga can be in those collected graphic novel form or it can be in magazine form. That's how it is in Japan. Again, TokyoPop didn't want to bother with magazines. To be honest, even in Japan sales are down. Actually, in Japan, they're also experimenting with cell phones, but that's a whole other issue. Graphic novel is the best term.
Well, I give domestic stuff attention no matter what they call it. HA! Actually, I was about to cite Oni and Scott Pilgrim. Though Oni is out of Oregon, far away from big city publishing spots like LA or NYC, the author of Scott Pilgrim is Canadian. Meanwhile another recent book is by an author from Greece. Though most of the creators are American. Same for Dark Horse or Image or even the big two houses of Marvel or DC. Though there it's not as creator owned. I will say that most of the TokyoPop original and other OEL 'manga' are cheaper. Literally, looking at the numbers. They're low budget. Does this make it bad? No. If anything, I think it makes them a bit more courageous. They don't have a giant Japanese publisher and the stronger Japanese market behind them. They don't have a number of uncredited assistants and media power behind them. For that alone they shouldn't be lumped in with manga.
Heh. Not sure if I should say too much there. I've pondered that with some ideas I keep batting around in my head. How much do you have to fictionalize something? Also, a friend of mine took a story I told him about and used it for his web comic. Of course, he inserted himself and took out another friend who was there. It wasn't too bad, but it was a little awkward. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Awww. Kitty!
It's not the heat! Kitty has the spirit of Christmas & wants to decorate. I always suspected TP pushes OEL because they're the original contractor & it's cheaper to license (contract with what often seems to be new artists) than licensing the existing Japanese stuff. I don't doubt someone who hates Gravitation would also hate Bobobo & I'd suspect they'd also dislike Excel Saga & Dr Slump. All these titles have a huge random factor. I mean, a manager who wakes his star up with a gun? Panda Mech? I loved it. Same for Bobobo--the school of Airplane--throw everything at the viewer/reader to see what takes. It's not for everyone. I had no use for DiGi Charat. When my daughter was 12 she was totally into that stuff & told me to read it also & all the stories seemed so aimless-reminded me of the line in Planes Trains & Automobiles about how John Candy's stories all had no point. All I could see was she must have liked the cute art. CMX- I have no problem with their product. Recipe for Gertrude, Eroica, Devil Does Exist, Young Magician, Pieces of a Spiral...I know I've read more.... I have less a problem with them & more with someone like Drama Queen which licenses tons of titles, but releases very few (sort of like ADV's licinsing those 50 titles back when & dropping them all) |
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babbo
Posts: 274 |
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Don't feel like putting my entire two cents in on eva but this kind of made me laugh. Most people who say that are probably talking about this quote (I copied it off of http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq.html since it's the first place I could quickly find it): Tsurumaki: There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice. There you go, right from the mouth of the assistant director. It was just because they thought it was cool and umm....yeah it is pretty much meaningless >.> Now I can't say I hate eva, but when they just slap on a shallow meaningless theme, it doesn't work and they never actually meant to take it seriously in the first place; that just makes it hard for me to the show seriously.
I can't say that I've read gravitation, but the profile on ANN says drama, romance, comedy. Bobobo I can get, it's a gag manga to the core, like air plane it never intends to be taken seriously. Is that always the case with gravitation? |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Oh come on. Why you gotta be like that? I'm just saying, that is what you're pretty much talking about isn't it? If you want to go into that discussion, by all means... Sorry if you took offense at my comment. |
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Sir Hamilton
Posts: 63 Location: Massachusetts |
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It just occured to me today this though it did. Can you imagine being the regular reader of answerman who is a little ehh how shall we put this... off their rocker? Who sends in a question and sees it put up in the flake of the week section...?
god that must feel dreadful. |
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fuuma_monou
Posts: 1839 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Are you referring to the dubtitles in the boxset or dropping the original theme songs? Not sure if it was because the boxset came first or not renegotiating the rights for the theme songs (or maybe both), but 10 episodes on two discs per volume was a pretty good deal. Wouldn't have bought the first two "chapters" if my comic shop didn't have their R1 DVDs at 50% off, though. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8491 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Apparently you didn't even read the quote you copied and pasted there. He says it has no CHRISTIAN meaning. You're dense if you think none of the symbolism has any meaning within the context of the content of the show - it just doesn't mean anything that has to do with Christianity. When Batou picks up a cross-shaped beam in the last episode of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig, it obviously has some meaning, but it doesn't mean that he's Jesus, get it? Nobody "slapped on" a theme to the show itself. That "theme" he was talking about was in the kind of symbolism they just happened to have picked. The theme of Evangelion's story is human communication. It's prevelent. It's geniune. It's not even difficult. I'm tired of explaining this to people. |
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