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INTEREST: Pixar's John Lasseter Recommends Wooing Girls With Anime


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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5470
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:52 pm Reply with quote
CastMember1991 wrote:
There's just no market demand for 2D feature animation anymore. If Don Bluth wants to do a 2D Dragon's Lair movie, I say make it a Netflix original.
I've heard that before, but I don't understand what it means. Does no demand mean that people won't go to watch it on the selling point that it is 2D, or it being 2D will actively discourage them from watching it.
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CastMember1991



Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 862
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:28 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
CastMember1991 wrote:
There's just no market demand for 2D feature animation anymore. If Don Bluth wants to do a 2D Dragon's Lair movie, I say make it a Netflix original.
I've heard that before, but I don't understand what it means. Does no demand mean that people won't go to watch it on the selling point that it is 2D, or it being 2D will actively discourage them from watching it.


It means that being purely 2D will actively discourage those not in the NY/LA/DC bubble from watching it.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 pm Reply with quote
CastMember1991 wrote:
Gemnist wrote:
But it's nice to see the man still has a soft spot for traditional animation, even though he single-handedly doomed its collapse in the American theatrical market...


No he isn't. Blame Rich Ross and Alan Horn. Whenever a 2D animated movie came out, the latter's poor marketing people did NOTHING to promote movies such as The Princess and the Frog. Horn is also responsible for the death of 2D. Lasseter is just doing what he loves, and the people responsible for killing 2D are typical out-of-touch Hollywood people like Rich Ross and Alan Horn.


As I said from the beginning, "There was nothing wrong with The Princess & the Frog that an actual plot and characters couldn't have fixed."
It was what they call a Noble Failure, ie. a good-looking mess. But the fact that Bob Iger kept the movie upfront in Princess and 00's-Renaissance marketing ever since has kept Tiana fresh in a new generation of girls' minds, and it's possible that we'll remember TP&TF long after we remember Moana. We already seem to remember it clearer than Lilo & Stitch, the last so-called "great" Disney film.

The problem is, everyone in the industry was expecting, at this point in the "script", that the new guy would come in after Eisner, do an even worse job of screwing up, and down would go the company. (Which everyone was literally hoping for after Lilo & Stitch became a hit and the darn-good but disastrously mis-marketed Treasure Planet didn't.)
When the already messy TP&TF came out and was crushed a week later by blue alien catpeople (hey, we didn't think it was going to be a hit!), guess what analysts enthusiastically credited as the reason.

And then Tangled came out, got it right, and ended up being the do-over new-classic Renaissance-starter they should have done the first time....Only it happened to be in CGI. Again, guess which disingenuously got the credit, especially by analysts who hadn't seen either movie.
(The first week, some animation sites reported audiences faultily remembering Tangled as being in 2-D, simply because it "should have been".)
Oh, and if you're wondering how we got "Tangled", "Frozen", and the upcoming "Gigantic", that dates back to the old traumatized superstition of Disney believing 2007's Enchanted was the "last good film they'd had" since 2002, which at the time, it was....And it's been all Adjectives ever since.
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TurnerJ



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 481
Location: Highland Park, NJ
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Not unless it's well advertised and marketed, though.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5470
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am Reply with quote
CastMember1991 wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
CastMember1991 wrote:
There's just no market demand for 2D feature animation anymore. If Don Bluth wants to do a 2D Dragon's Lair movie, I say make it a Netflix original.
I've heard that before, but I don't understand what it means. Does no demand mean that people won't go to watch it on the selling point that it is 2D, or it being 2D will actively discourage them from watching it.


It means that being purely 2D will actively discourage those not in the NY/LA/DC bubble from watching it.
Who will it discourage, kids like animation, regardless of whether it is 2D or 3D. They still watch a decent amount of 2D shows on TV, I do not understand why a theatrical film would be any different.

I know Disney talked about shrinking returns on their traditionally animated films. Something which may have had more to do with them being the sold types of films they used to make, traditional princesses films and Winnie the Pooh.
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CastMember1991



Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 862
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:30 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
CastMember1991 wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
CastMember1991 wrote:
There's just no market demand for 2D feature animation anymore. If Don Bluth wants to do a 2D Dragon's Lair movie, I say make it a Netflix original.
I've heard that before, but I don't understand what it means. Does no demand mean that people won't go to watch it on the selling point that it is 2D, or it being 2D will actively discourage them from watching it.


It means that being purely 2D will actively discourage those not in the NY/LA/DC bubble from watching it.
Who will it discourage, kids like animation, regardless of whether it is 2D or 3D. They still watch a decent amount of 2D shows on TV, I do not understand why a theatrical film would be any different.

I know Disney talked about shrinking returns on their traditionally animated films. Something which may have had more to do with them being the sold types of films they used to make, traditional princesses films and Winnie the Pooh.


Mainly people in rural areas. They just don't care about any kind of animated movie that isn't Pixar or Pixar-style.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:21 pm Reply with quote
CastMember1991 wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
I know Disney talked about shrinking returns on their traditionally animated films. Something which may have had more to do with them being the sold types of films they used to make, traditional princesses films and Winnie the Pooh.


Mainly people in rural areas. They just don't care about any kind of animated movie that isn't Pixar or Pixar-style.


Keep in mind, people had a little too much grudge on their mind from '95-'05, it came to a boil in '02-'05, and when they tried to smooth it over in '09, audiences just weren't ready to play nice yet.
The popularity of Beauty & the Beast and Lion King had made it look "easy" for other studios (shades of the Superhero glut?), opened the floodgates for EVERY studio to try and float their own 2D animated "hit" titles, and drowned us in the "90's Wannabe" years of The Swan Princess, Ferngully and The Pagemaster. It didn't help that having more of the standard trope villain-song and climactic-battle tropes around only made them more glaring in Disney's own movies, and when '96's "Hunchback of Notre Dame" seemed to be made entirely out of cliche's, audiences finally snapped...And '97's "Hercules" unfairly took the delayed-reaction audience punch-in-the-face for it.
Roy Disney's "SaveDisney.com" movement had started as just a union complaint about the 2D animation directors that Michael Eisner had fired, but boosted by Shrek and Shrek 2's anti-Disney gags, audiences had personally mutated the movement into "Kick Eisner OUT, and we'll stop getting those danged musicals!" The unexpected cult word-of-mouth hit for "Lilo & Stitch" was somehow politicized into a wish to bulldoze 90's Disney from the ground up, and put Chris Sanders in charge of the studio to make "More weird movies!", and then punish Treasure Planet and Home on the Range for being "Too normal!"

Let's face it: We were still feeling a little edgy. Confused It was just a little too early for a 2D Renaissance to happen yet.
When John Lasseter came on, and successfully fixed up the disastrous first drafts of "Bolt" and "Meet the Robinsons", we were all waiting for the other shoe to drop, and Disney to finish the slide into disaster they'd started with Chicken Little, and for some frustrating reason, c'mon, it just wasn't happening.
All the way into '10--I've heard people who still refuse to watch "Tangled" because they thought (hoped?) it was going to be a disaster from the first trailers.
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Jayhosh



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 972
Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Yep, Lupin has a tendency to do that. And given Lasseter has a precedent for having good taste in cartoons, I'd imagine he's a Lupin fan on top of his love for Miyazaki. Hell, the man directed a good portion of 70's Lupin material.
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