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Answerman - Why Aren't Anime Sales Figures Made Public?


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I_Drive_DSM



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:18 pm Reply with quote
If you read any of the older anime mags that were around in the US in the early days of the internet you'd know that most sales figures are compiled just as was answered in the question; by various firms that track consumer data. Animerica in particular always had nice sales charts of both Japan and American sales rankings for both anime and manga, but they were never released by the companies themselves. There was always a note or disclaimer that they pulled the sales figures from a company or similar that specialized in keeping up with those sort of metrics.

The other problem as mentioned is there usually is a lot of very nice numbers that come from expected distribution - Amazon, anime retailers, etc - but then the numbers tapper off as the stock lingers. If the stock lingers for too long it can actually end up in places that you might not expect at extremely discounted prices (particular if a distributor goes under). I remember randomly walking into a Dollar General of all places to pick up cleaning supplies, only to see an entire shelf containing DVD copies of Tenchi Muyo OVA (seems appropriate to be there...) and Gate Keepers 21 there for $2 each.

Motion picture of any sort has to be unique in this aspect because units often have edition updates or minor design changes. Eventually you simply can't keep stock of a particular edition or title, especially if it's constantly superseded or changes hands (like a lot of anime does when titles change distributors). I guess in a fetched way one could parallel the aspect to book sales.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:43 pm Reply with quote
I_Drive_DSM wrote:
Motion picture of any sort has to be unique in this aspect because units often have edition updates or minor design changes. Eventually you simply can't keep stock of a particular edition or title, especially if it's constantly superseded or changes hands (like a lot of anime does when titles change distributors). I guess in a fetched way one could parallel the aspect to book sales.


Video games are like this too. Capcom in particular is quite guilty of updated versions released just several months after the previous version, though it seems people who keep track of sames numbers count them each separately.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1883
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Anime sales figures not being made public?

Doesn't surprise me. After all, we can't be having the industry saying that giving the fans cheap, affordable anime is hurting their bottom line at the end of the day.
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sputn1k



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:42 pm Reply with quote
The closest you can get to an actual *relative* public ranking is by using Amazon's sales rank.

It has separate rankings for releases in DVD/BD > Anime and in DVD/BD in general.
This allows you to roughly estimate how well a release performs in sales on Amazon compared to other anime releases or the releases of TV Series/Hollywood movies.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:52 pm Reply with quote
I've always wondered why fans care so much. To a certain extent I suppose there's some validation from seeing a show you like sell well, and for that matter a show you dislike selling poorly, but surely that's not compelling enough to justify the fuss fans make over them. Maybe some people use how many other people bought it as some kind of guide to whether or not they should buy it, in spite of the myriad ways of watching it first being a better indicator of quality.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:05 pm Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
I've always wondered why fans care so much. To a certain extent I suppose there's some validation from seeing a show you like sell well, and for that matter a show you dislike selling poorly, but surely that's not compelling enough to justify the fuss fans make over them. Maybe some people use how many other people bought it as some kind of guide to whether or not they should buy it, in spite of the myriad ways of watching it first being a better indicator of quality.


I always like the nefarious intentions argument of why do you want this? What are you plotting? How will you use this to hurt people? etc.

Do you really feel that everyone who reads Billboard, Variety, Box Office Mojo, stamp collector magazines, New York Times Best Seller list, etc. are all up to some evil plan?

Maybe some people like business data (there are businesses on Earth so it would make sense that some people are indeed into business) and you don't. It could really be as simple as that. No self-validation, no plot or scheme. They just like business data, they like anime, they feel there's a potential for crossover of two hobbies.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
I always like the nefarious intentions argument of why do you want this? What are you plotting? How will you use this to hurt people? etc.

Do you really feel that everyone who reads Billboard, Variety, Box Office Mojo, stamp collector magazines, New York Times Best Seller list, etc. are all up to some evil plan?

Maybe some people like business data (there are businesses on Earth so it would make sense that some people are indeed into business) and you don't. It could really be as simple as that. No self-validation, no plot or scheme. They just like business data, they like anime, they feel there's a potential for crossover of two hobbies.

You're reading things into my question that are not there. I don't think anyone - maybe rival publishers aside - has any nefarious need of the data. I just genuinely don't understand the appeal of comparing sales data on products in the same sector of the market. I genuinely don't understand trainspotters either, but that doesn't mean I think they're planning terrorist attacks on rail networks.
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 pm Reply with quote
I disagree with the answer's premise. There are many good reasons for companies to share their sales information; contributing sales info to a general, public pot allows for a better picture of what works, what doesn't, and why.

I think the issue is less that there's "no reason" to share information and more that the sharing of such information behaves like a tragedy of the commons. There is social benefit to be realized, but no individual publisher/licensor/etc will ever see marginal benefit when acting alone.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:14 am Reply with quote
I wonder how much of Justin's response applies to streaming figures. While the YT figures can be hacked to lower/raise a video's actually view count, having the streams visible is something that CR or Funi could try.
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Random Name



Joined: 24 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:13 am Reply with quote
The way I see it knowing these figures even as fans is not all that important. Either it gets another season or it doesn't knowing the numbers won't change that. All I do is support the anime I like and hope for the best. Although I don't buy import discs only merch since I'd rather support my local anime licensing companies.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:34 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
I disagree with the answer's premise. There are many good reasons for companies to share their sales information; contributing sales info to a general, public pot allows for a better picture of what works, what doesn't, and why.


That is still not a good reason for companies to release their information. The bad far out weighs whatever little good or consumer benefit.

Even if you knew that information, you still have to get all the parts of the production working their best and together in synchronicity. Also, if you got everything right, it could still fall flat with the audience.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:37 am Reply with quote
There's just so many things I'd like to know about anime sales figures, things like: Every few months I picked up Viz's remaindered attempts at streaming; They were all dubbed and they were all cheaper than dirt. Funimation's new distribution partner and how having greater in store visibility and fewer online sales worked out for them- though to be honest, their recent rash of slash sales kind of tells me how. Sentai and their random dub strategy. "We have this really mediocre show, let's dub it because it'll sell." Sentai and their "catch and release" dub/sub strategy for license rescues compared to their "great cast!" strategy for K-on and P4 compared to their "Recast!" one for Rozen Maiden. Which worked, did any of them?

According to Amazon's numbers, Nichijou is the top selling sub only anime this year, probably all time. Why? Ok, I know why it was, what I want to know is why it had to be.

Media Blasters for the past five years. "How?", just "How?"

Streaming numbers? Really don't care as every season of simulcasting gets more and more uninteresting. Hey, remember when anime just about the good stuff and not animation mistakes and clip shows? Ok, that was never not true but at least it didn't matter as much.

Imagine a simulcast of Wolf's Rain where an entire month was just clip shows... or Endless Eight?
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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:38 am Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:
According to Amazon's numbers, Nichijou is the top selling sub only anime this year, probably all time. Why? Ok, I know why it was, what I want to know is why it had to be.


Well, the difference between Nichijou and other sub-only titles is that it'd been a release that fans had been clamoring for since 2011. It was also a series that the majority didn't care if it got dubbed, understanding that the humor would sometimes be hard to translate. I imagine that's why it "had to be" that it's selling so well...hopefully its success will encourage Funimation to license more risky titles.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:28 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
NeverConvex wrote:
I disagree with the answer's premise. There are many good reasons for companies to share their sales information; contributing sales info to a general, public pot allows for a better picture of what works, what doesn't, and why.


That is still not a good reason for companies to release their information. The bad far out weighs whatever little good or consumer benefit.

Even if you knew that information, you still have to get all the parts of the production working their best and together in synchronicity. Also, if you got everything right, it could still fall flat with the audience.


I disagree. Information of this sort is extremely valuable when planning new projects, and the downsides to sharing information publicly are all intangibles at best tenuously related to the studios' bottom line (like the Answerman answer's concern that it would encourage fans to push studios' noses into their failures).

Certainly it's not a magic wand; you have to not just have a general sense of what works but also be able to execute in production. But that's completely irrelevant; no single decision will magically do all of the work for you and that's a silly standard to which to hold any decision.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:39 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:

I disagree. Information of this sort is extremely valuable when planning new projects, and the downsides to sharing information publicly are all intangibles at best tenuously related to the studios' bottom line (like the Answerman answer's concern that it would encourage fans to push studios' noses into their failures).


The bottom line is the most important line. The studios already know what works and what doesn't. There are plenty of existing examples already. Sales numbers would not do them any good, other than to let them know if they are going to be happy or depressed.

Justin listed plenty of examples (not just the one you noted) as why it was bad, and they still trump public release.
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