Forum - View topicINTEREST: Manga Editor Provides Glimpse of Lolicon Magazine's Standards
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razisgosu
Posts: 657 |
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@kai99 yeah the US is so above that stuff. It's not like the US had toddlers and tiaras or anything. Showing off real kids to be on a tv show.
Point being the US isn't above using kids for money. |
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shakir0247
Posts: 60 |
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That.... doesn't seem possible in the slightest, legally speaking. You do realize you're talking about prohibiting works of fiction from including things prohibited by the law? Also, I find that all this dehumanization of people with a sexual fetish very counterproductive. It shouldn't need to be pointed out that lolicon =/= child rapist. I think you'll find that just because a person finds something arousing, does not mean they endorse or justify that action, outliers notwithstanding. Fetishes like this are not a active choice, at most they are sometimes an acquired taste. As far as I'm concerned, fiction is a MUCH healthier outlet for people's sexual fantasies than attempting it in real life or trying to bottle it up. |
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Kai99
Posts: 89 |
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I've addressed Toddlers and Tiaras before. You can say a lot about that show, but you can not say it is made FOR pedophiles. The people who can enter that event are parents of the competitors, and the fans of the little girls tend to be other little girls. Unlike elementary school idols who are made FOR pedos in Japan. animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-10-01/elementary-idol-group-girlfriend-producer-bans-fan-from-future-events-after-incident/.79383 And I didn't say US is above using kids for money. |
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shakir0247
Posts: 60 |
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Haven't we gone over this on dozens of other topics? Yes, people will commit horrible things partly inspired by works of fiction. No, we shouldn't and never have started censoring all media of the type as a result. A mass shooting at a Dark Knight Rises screening perpetrated by a Batman fan dressed as the Joker had little to no impact on the publication of Batman comics. Thankfully, most people can tell the difference between fantasy and reality though. |
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Chrno2
Posts: 6172 Location: USA |
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As disturbing as this might be I can't help but laugh at the conversation.
"The readers want 9 year olds." That just doesn't sound right on so many levels. Didn't know there was a guideline for loli illustrations. |
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Juno016
Posts: 2413 |
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This comment sums up a lot of arguments here, actually. Japan and the U.S. have much different cultures. In Japan, you won't see many people at all wanting to argue for open public access to guns, and dare you suggest it, people will rally against you so hard... which is basically what you'd experience if you tried to argue for lolicon artwork in the U.S. Basically, the thing going on with Japan is that it's been a basic freedom and has such little evidence of hurting anyone directly for so long that there's a HUGE enough following (or they have plenty of supporters of freedom in art) and it would have to forced away from a huge group of people before banning it became a viable option. Even disposing of all that's already circulated out there would take FOREVER and wouldn't be realistic to enforce all that well. Even if many people in Japan don't like it either, most people just don't care enough to exert the effort needed to force such a huge ban. And though I am anti-gun myself and come from the U.S. (I live in Japan now), I also think banning guns and trying to seize all the ones out there is a complete waste of time and we need to find a way to work with gun owners to create something that works for everyone. Really, what I personally think we should be working toward is education on the topic. Learn about why so many (mostly) guys like lolicon. Research it. Then learn how to combat tendencies that do end up dangerous to real children. Utilize them in experimental phases, and see how they work when implemented. In the end, censorship and outright banning things will not solve the problem, let alone is it even a humane solution. We're humans. We're complex. Let's learn how this complexity works before we commit to something we're just going to have to fix later. |
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razisgosu
Posts: 657 |
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You really seem to be grasping here. When Japan makes something risque involving children it's for pedophiles. When the US makes something risque involving children, it's not for pedophiles. Double standards much? |
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Parse Error
Posts: 592 |
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...Considering the nature of what their kids are "competing" in, this does exceedingly little to convince me that these parents are not somewhat less than wholesome folks. I have no right to cry for it to be banned unless or until there's convincing evidence of harm, it's just that the parents being involved doesn't automatically make it less skeevy when parents have been known to do some pretty awful things to their own kids. |
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#848531
Posts: 6 |
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I agree with the people here who say that the pic are harmless as long as no real children where used to make them. Taking legal action against people who enjoy that content but harm no child and have no plans to would set a bad precedent.
Lucky for those in the US legally no can take action against you even though the US government has tried before. It took the supreme court to stop the and strike down a law they made that not only attacked porn that had real children, but also ones that where draw that did not include real children. The same arguments for why the content should not exist were made during this case too, but the court was smart enough to see that no one was harmed in the creation, sale, or consumption of this content and overturned the law. For anyone who would like to research this I have placed the cases and the relevant laws below supreme court case Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (Old Law that was stuck down) The Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996 (New Law) PROTECT Act 2003 http://theconversation.com/when-a-drawing-or-cartoon-image-can-land-you-in-jail-33418 "Freedom of speech doesn't protect speech you like; it protects speech you don't like." Larry Flynt "You have to be able to tolerate what you don't necessarily like so you can be free." Larry Flynt |
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Kai99
Posts: 89 |
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I don't think you realize the amount of content aimed at pedophiles in Japan. Here are a few examples. https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2014/09/28/js-loli-idol-group-bans-fan-for-touching/ http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/the-fuel-for-japans-pedophiles It isn't a secret that there is an industry targeted towards pedophiles in Japan. Of course not all content about children are targeted towards pedos. The one I posted IS. Last edited by Kai99 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10454 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Victual child porn(VCP), ie: animation featuring pornographic images of children, is illegal in many countries. In the USA you will be arrested and charged, but the actually legality is debated. During the Christopher Handley case, which ANN covered at length, it was found that parts of the "Protect Act" were unconstitutional. However ultimately Handley did not go all the way in challenging the constitutionality of this, and he accepted a plea-deal and was convicted of obscenity charges over his possession of manga/doujin child porn. Here are a few other countries where I know it's illegal: Australia, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand (Where Puni Puni Poemy was banned as a result), Poland, South Africa, Sweden (only if the images are "realistic"), The UK. Last edited by Tempest on Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:18 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Kai99
Posts: 89 |
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The only reason I talked about parents only being allowed at the events is to point out the safety measures put in place. Unlike the children idol group where these young kids meet and greet their adult male fans. |
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razisgosu
Posts: 657 |
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The safety measures where kids meeting their adult male fans have plenty of staff at the event making sure everything is going well, right? It's literally the same thing in a different region to appease to the masses the most. TV is popular in the US, so adults get to watch these kids on TV. Handshaking events and meeting the are popular in Japan, so they host handshaking events. If anything I'd say Japan is doing something right given their sex crimes are low compared to say the US who has some of the highest sex crime rates in the world. Just put that in perspective for you. The country that supposedly endorses pedophilia as you say has a lower crime rate involving children than the US. Google it, the info is out there. |
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Rensie
Posts: 251 |
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I live in swiss near italy border, and is absolutely false, in italy drawing of every kind are 100% legal and not an issue, the only law about virtual cp was made for photomontages of real people not computer generated images. You have to update your source.
There is nothing like this in Japan, is just a fabrication made in the west, ero manga are called eroge and they cover the whole genre, they don't have any subgenre. Who read these manga are regular people. Drawings are considered art in Japan and protected by the freedom of speech, and never associated to real life matters. The last restrictive laws and debates are just the consequence of western organization pressures, forcing them to censor their own art and sanitize the country based on the western morals, this is true disgusting, creating fear, issues and charging people for drawings and thoughts crimes that never existed in Japan. Edited to remove blanket statement. --willag Last edited by Rensie on Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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So it is illegal in the US? That's a bit frightening given I collect doujinshi. I've been doing it for years with no problem, but the fact I could be charged with child pornography if someone wants to contest the ages in them is a bit unnerving. On the subject of America sexualizing children, it's not as uncommon as one might think. Or at least it wasn't. Back during the early 2000s there were tons of sites dedicated to child modeling. They were essentially the American version of Junior Idols. I think most of those sites vanished in recent years, but I'm not sure if it was due to legality changes or just peer pressure from society. I'm also sure they still exist somewhere in the deepest parts of the internet I don't care to go to. Whatever the case, there's clearly a market for that kind of stuff here, and whether shows like Toddlers and Tiaras are aimed at them or not, I'm sure it fills a niche for people who are into that kind of thing. You can say the same thing about idols, they have tons of female fans as well so dismissing them all as just being for pedophiles or perverts is a bit unfair. I subscribe to the mindset of if it's not hurting anybody, then it's no big deal. The whole purpose of child pornography laws is to protect children, not punish pedophiles. Pedophelia is just a sexual orientation, one that isn't a choice. There's also a difference between being a pedophile and actually molesting children. -Stuart Smith |
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