Forum - View topicNeo-lolita complex?
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ace52387
 Posts: 61 |
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We all know there are plenty of loli characters in anime, and a lot of them are blatantly pedophile-targeted, but it occured to me recently that there's this branch of loli characters, the ones that know absolutely NOTHING about the world, and speak with a sub 2 yr old vocabulary. Chii from chobits and Nyu(? i forget her name) in Elfen Lied follow this archetype, and what strikes me most is that not only are these characters the main focus of their respective OVA/TV series', they're also pretty popular, especially Elfen Lied.
Does anyone think these characters push the envelope on the lolita-complex already in many anime titles? I mean...their mental maturity level is that of an infant's...that's kind of scary isn't it? |
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Well here's my take on it. First of all, it's a personal pet peeve of mine when people assume that people who like loli characters are pedophiles, it's insulting and frankly wrong most of the time. Second, I agree wholeheartedly with panties' view on Chii not being loli; nor would I say Lucy/Nyu really fits into that category either... but I do know what you're talking about in general.
No, I don't find it "scary". Anime seems to cover just about every facet of the human personality and psyche, and an infant like state is one important aspect that every human being goes through. I don't find it scary in the slightest that people might find the idea of not knowing the pain or struggles of the world attractive in either themselves or others. Personally, I hated Chii with a passion, and I never really like Nyu, but I can't even imagine a rational viewpoint that would lead me to be afraid (in any sense of the word) that someone else does. |
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ace52387
Posts: 61 |
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Ok i understand where you're coming from, and certainly, some loli characters have a lot more to them than just their childish quirk, and there's nothing wrong with portraying a character with the mentality of an infant, but in the case of chobits and elfen lied, they are the romantic attraction of the series, which is what i have a problem with, and its what i can't get over when i remember chobits and elfen lied. I'm not scared like, "what has society come to" scared. I'm just freaked out that the series has that kind of a romantic lead.
Edit: addressing the chii not being loli, I agree that she's not the traditional archetype like hina-ichigo from rozen maiden, same with nyu, but she is something special, maybe we can find a new word for it, but her kind of character is a niche that isn't completely unrelated. |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Hey, as long as there are Rozen Maidens running around, it's a non-issue.
 
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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No, by definition Chii and Lucy/Nyu are not lolli in my view, because they are not pre-pubesent children and well...they have breasts. Chii is supposed to look about 16-17 and does and Lucy is the same age or very close to Kouta and Youka who are in college. Just because somebody is mentally lacking, it doesn't mean they're lolli, it just means they're retarded. Also in these cases it's nothing a little re-education can't fix, both of their intellects improved greatly in the spans of their respective series.
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NocturnalUX
 Posts: 448 Location: Portugal |
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I think that what the OP is trying to say is that it is disturbing that characters that are not loli per se (like Nyu) but are somewhat intellectually challenged should act as the sexually arousing. Their utter lack of maturity coupled with extreme allure may target them as children in a woman's body, which seems to what is being addressed here. Of course I could be completely off the mark here.
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Kruszer
Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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If that's the case then I'd also have to answer in the negatory and have to point out that one of the main purposes for doing that I believe is not neccessarily to have that disturbing effect, but instead provide some simple comedy which I think it excelled greatly at, because I found it hillarious. It's only unsettling if you think too much about it which I don't really believe was the original intent, but I do see how it could be interpreted that way. Humor is a subjective thing though, I suppose, not everyone will laugh at the same jokes or agree which subjects should and should not be joked about. However, I'm of the opinion that anything can be made fun of, mocked, or parodied including myself for my own ammusement. I don't fault anyone for not haveing my sense of humor though. 
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16972 |
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I agree with you Selenta about people assuming a loli fan is a pedo right off the bat. Nine out of ten aren't, but of course all you hear about are the ones that are. They make for better news.  What gets my goat are the people that associate all facents of loli or lolita with the hentai aspect. It seems if it's loli it has to be about little girls half naked or in some sort of sexually compromising position. Most loli fans I would argue simply think of these characters as cute and without any real sexual thoughts behind it.Take my gf for example. She loves Gothic Lolita outfits. Thinks they're cuter then pink teddy bears. There's no dark sexual desire laced with this fascination though. She simply likes the look of the outfits. When you say loli now everyone immediately goes down that dark route and thoughts of little kids and tentacles comes to mind.
As for yours, and panties views, on Chi. I agree she isn't loli but I can see where someone who doesn't know anything about loli or lolita would make that assumption. As for Nyuu/Lucy I still to this day do not get how people ever thought of he as loli. |
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jetz
 Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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Aren't Chii and Nyu simply moe characters? Or maybe they're loli+?
I like lolis too, btw, and I'm a girl. I just think they're cute  Completely no sexual interest in them whatsoever. In fact, I don't get why people associate lolis with sex at all. Whenever people find out I like lolis, they ask me if I watch Hentai, and I don't.
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ace52387
Posts: 61 |
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bah the terminology...maybe moe makes more sense. Either way, regardless of physical appearance, the character does have a childishness.
I'm not saying everyone or even most people who likes loli characters are pedophiles, nor am i associating loli characters with hentai. What i am saying is that it is surprising that the chii/nyu character, child in woman's body type thing, is so popular as romantic leads. When I stop to think about it, the romantic relationship strikes me as disturbing. I'm not scared of anyone who likes chobits or elfen lied, but of the relationship in the anime itself, ala Koi Kaze or in Elfen Lied, spoiler[the cousin relationship]. I'm just not certain that was the intention. |
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nikandros
Posts: 58 |
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The over all problem is, Nyu isn't the romantic lead in the story. Basically the character is there to add a little humor to the story so that the drama and horror of the events you see happening around you doesn't overwhelm you.
Lucy could be considered a romantic lead. The primary Elfen Lied romantic leads are Kouta's cousin and Lucy. He never acts at all in a romantic fashion towards Nyu. He saves her, but thats his personality. As for Chobits, I can't say one way or the other because I haven't seen it yet. |
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jetz
Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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It's popular cause it's cute. Sorry I can't think of a better explanation than that.
About the cousin thing, well that's common in anime already (and maybe even in Japanese culture). You'll just have to adjust if you want to watch anime. |
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nikandros
Posts: 58 |
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From what I understand, it is legal and normal in Japan for first cousins to marry. It may not happen all that often, but no one looks down on it and it is legal there. I think you are very unlikely to get birth defects from it or something so its more a societal taboo rather than something that is illegal because it will damage the human genetic structure if wide spread acceptance happens. IE if all of the sudden everyone married or had a child with their sister or mother, the human race would devolve in a few generations worth of time. With cousins, there would be cases where incest related birth defects happen, but are so uncommon that it is likely to not make a huge difference. Thats how I understand it to be at least. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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As a matter of fact, the custom of banning (as incestuous) first cousin marriage is largely an American quirk,and it's not even universal there. See this earlier thread, which sets the facts straight. Also... Chii is not loli. Nyuu is not loli. They are infantile (and hence, moe, because they require protection/guidance), not prenubile. - abunai |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I think this all stems from confusion about the definition of loli. People assume anything thats loli is sexual because they think that by definition loli is young children presented in a sexual way. Is that true? I think its sorta becoming the popular definition. Im not sure what the official definition is though, and it multiplies the confusion since theres lolicon and lolita, (which I think are different things) both of which are shortend to loli Then theres the fact that lolita is originally derived from that whole lolita complex thing (which is from a book or something) which means there are other various stuff branched out from that like gothic lolita, etc. (As you can see, I am one of said people who doesnt entirely get the differences between all this stuff.) Its a broad and complex collection of concepts and terms, but because people most commonly and notably hear it in a negative sense, they take that to be the definition. My advice to loli fans who dont like the negative association is to stop pushing the term loli. Maybe technically loli doesnt refer to something sexual, but most people think it does. The term has become "tainted" so to speak. Its a sinking ship. |
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