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Anime and authenticity


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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:59 pm Reply with quote
I find that many anime and manga give the impression that the writers and creators of these manga and anime are not very well informed about the world outside of Japan. Though everyone on Earth is guilty of ethnocentrism and bias, I find that in order to add authenticity to the setting of the writer's choice, sufficient research and effort is needed. I find, especially with earlier works, that there is little or no care taken to create an atmosphere of authenticity in settings not set in Japan.

I do understand that it is often portrayed that everyone on Earth somehow speaks Japanese, because there is only a very tiny proportion of people in Japan that understands or speaks another language. But often, people who are speaking non-Japanese languages are speaking in that language with a Japanese accent and rather badly. Though not an anime, one extreme example being the Nodame Cantabile dorama features a Japanese actor playing Stresemann (who is a fully German character). Not to count the numerous times an "American" character speaks fluent Japanese with no trace of their "native" accent (which also counts for their English).

Another aspect of this is the lack of research done about settings and cultures outside Japan. Writers simply use stereotypes or images they get from popular media. I know for a fact that there is a wealth of knowledge in the Japanese language of the outside world. What I do not understand is that the writers don't seem to care about research or authenticity. If you watch G Gundam, you'll know what I mean. All the (non-Japanese) characters are personifications of stereotypes. Italians eat pizza every meal, and the Canadian Gundam is the Lumberjack Gundam.

Certainly, there are exceptions to this, but let me ask, what are your opinions on this? Are other specific examples that come to mind? Has it gotten better?
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:24 pm Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:

I do understand that it is often portrayed that everyone on Earth somehow speaks Japanese, because there is only a very tiny proportion of people in Japan that understands or speaks another language. But often, people who are speaking non-Japanese languages are speaking in that language with a Japanese accent and rather badly. Though not an anime, one extreme example being the Nodame Cantabile dorama features a Japanese actor playing Stresemann (who is a fully German character). Not to count the numerous times an "American" character speaks fluent Japanese with no trace of their "native" accent (which also counts for their English).


That's just the nature of the beast and its not really any different in English (or any other language) entertainment. Take Star Wars or Star Treck, for example. If they aren't speaking a made up gibberish language, they are speaking English.

It would be hard, and impractical, to fhave (voice) actors pretend they are fluent in a language they aren't and not in the language that they really are.

That aside, in anime and manga, 'foreign' characters are frequently only half-foreign and whether they are or are not, it is assumed they become fluent before they arrive or they are very quick learners. Smile

Quote:
Another aspect of this is the lack of research done about settings and cultures outside Japan. Writers simply use stereotypes or images they get from popular media. I know for a fact that there is a wealth of knowledge in the Japanese language of the outside world. What I do not understand is that the writers don't seem to care about research or authenticity. If you watch G Gundam, you'll know what I mean. All the (non-Japanese) characters are personifications of stereotypes. Italians eat pizza every meal, and the Canadian Gundam is the Lumberjack Gundam.


Well, G Gundam isn't supposed to be taken too seriously most of the time anyways. I mean, come on, a windmill gundam? A fish gundam? The lumberjack gundam was relatively normal.

That aside, thats a partly a product of Japan's homogenous culture and that most of their exposure to foreign culture is through popular entertainment and stereotypes. I'd say the U.S. is a bit better, but we are far from innocent.
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Samurai-with-glasses



Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 628
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Erm, Beck?

I ought to admit that the American voices in Beck are beyond hilarious. But they don't sound Japanese to me, for sure.

Considering most anime is merely just ordinary TV-level entertainment quality for Japan, I don't see an incentive for the creators to make a more authentic world. If it's a blockbuster effort with an interest in a world market, may be.
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hiroober



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:04 am Reply with quote
dude...if a Italian character speaks Italian all the time and a Chinese character speaks Chinese in the entire show, will you be able to understand?

for the stereotyped character, oh yeah, that's exactly they do in anime and manga. You're gonna easily find that 99% American characters are prone to be arrogant or bully sb else(especially the Japanese protagonist) in a story that takes place in Japan, and 99% Chinese female characters' hairstyle will have 2 buns and they always wear cheongsams...(=_=)

man...I don't think that the staff don't know that they are stereotyped characters, they kinda just want to stick a lable on every foreign characters' face....(-_-;)
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adonais



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:46 am Reply with quote
I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, making a statement like that, and no examples (I haven't seen Gundam) to illustrate your point. I'd think you could substitute the title with "Hollywood and authenticity" (just an example..) and make the same arguments there, it's just the way things are all over the place, stereotypes, biases and ethnocentricism. I haven't considered that anime would be any worse in this respect, although they (the nihonjin) do seem to have some additional issues going on with respect to foreigners (mental block or smth, the whole gaijin thing). But that's not what you were commenting on. Can you give some more examples?

[EDIT: And it just ocurred to me, I have counted some of those anime stereotypes to the most hilarious anime events ever: two of my favorites are the american baseball team and the dutch homo in Samurai Champloo! I laughed so hard my stomach hurt for the rest of the night after seeing those - and you know what they say, it wouldn't be half so funny if there wasn't some modicum of truth to it Wink ]


Last edited by adonais on Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:48 am Reply with quote
adonais wrote:
I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, making a statement like that, and no examples (I haven't seen Gundam) to illustrate your point.


He gave two examples, one for each point. Actually, he gave two for the stereotypes, but only one was anime. Just because you aren't familiar with his example doesn't mean his example doesn't count.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with asking for some more examples, but it is incorrect to say he didn't give any.
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adonais



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:56 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
He gave two examples, one for each point. Actually, he gave two for the stereotypes, but only one was anime. Just because you aren't familiar with his example doesn't mean his example doesn't count.

Well to nitpick if you must, he wrote: "If you watch G Gundam, you'll know what I mean." Had he bothered to explain only minimally the connection or significance, even I could have understood the example he mentioned without having seen what he referred to. So I ask for more examples, or some elucidation on the one he gave without explanation. Fair enough?
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hagakure|returns



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 407
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:12 am Reply with quote
If you're an asian guy in hollywood, you better know kungfu. Hiiii-ya

Last edited by hagakure|returns on Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:14 am Reply with quote
Well, he DID give two examples (the Italians and the lumberjack Gundam)....

But, anyway...the language thing doesn't bother me. It's a Japanese show, they're going to speak Japanese, even if they're living in Germany. After all, all the characters in Beauty and the Beast are french, but besides the occational flippant 'bonjour', they're speaking English.
I do wonder if characters from foreign countries speak with any accents though, you know? Like, here in the US, if you have a character with mostly american characters and, for example, you get a German exchange student on the show...he'll speak english with some sort of German accent. But I don't know enough Japanese to know if these characters coming from somewhere else are speaking in some sort of accent. (The only thing I can think of that comes close is that Momiji in the Fruits Basket manga has a tendancy to mix up words).

As for the stereotypes, though...yeah, I've noticed they have a tendancy to be reeeeeally bad about that. Anime hyper This isn't anime, but in Katamari Damacy they have different models of people that you can pick up that are all named something different. One of the people is called "American Guy". What does he look like...?

Tall, blond, and FAT (the only other characters who are as fat as him are sumo wrestlers!), with an american flag on his shirt and blue jeans.

You tend to see a lot of that--either Americans are fat (and possibly lazy), or they wear cowboy hats and scream "Yeeee-haw!" all the time and wave around guns. (In fact, in the Azumanga Daioh manga, I seem to recall one of the girls telling Chiyo-chan that if she goes to college in the US she'll get shot! Anime hyper)
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adonais



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 am Reply with quote
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
Well, he DID give two examples (the Italians and the lumberjack Gundam)....

Ok, my mistake, I didn't recognize it. Forget it.
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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:05 am Reply with quote
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
After all, all the characters in Beauty and the Beast are french, but besides the occational flippant 'bonjour', they're speaking English.
I do wonder if characters from foreign countries speak with any accents though, you know? Like, here in the US, if you have a character with mostly american characters and, for example, you get a German exchange student on the show...he'll speak english with some sort of German accent.


Well, what I'm saying is that it's okay if they're all speaking Japanese as a proxy for whatever language they're speaking. That's been happening since Shakespeare. But what I do mind is that when there's a foreign character and speak their "foreign language" in the context of code switching, they'll speak it with a Japanese accent. The writers and directors don't even seem to know or care that you have a learning period learning a language, so no explanation is given why that character is so good at speaking Japanese or why they do not have their foreign accent.

One example you'd think I'd use is Beck. They had a valiant effort for Ryusuke in erasing his Japanese accent, though ultimately, us English speakers still end up chuckling. But I can sense that they hired a dialect coach to help out. Others, like Ginban Kaleidoscope, where the "American" character, who is not supposed to know Japanese, tells off the main character in "English". I couldn't help banging my head against the wall in contempt, disgust, anger, etc. while she was speaking.
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:02 am Reply with quote
I think that it's one of those things that you're supposed to ignore and not even thing about...you know like the 6-shot revolver that can shoot 200 bullets before the shooter has to reload or the fact that there really isn't any sound in space so you wouldn't hear the tie-fighters, X-Wings or the Death Star blow up.
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AirCooledMan_2006



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 594
Location: Delaware, U.S.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:52 pm Reply with quote
LydiaDianne wrote:
I think that it's one of those things that you're supposed to ignore and not even thing about...you know like the 6-shot revolver that can shoot 200 bullets before the shooter has to reload or the fact that there really isn't any sound in space so you wouldn't hear the tie-fighters, X-Wings or the Death Star blow up.


Cosign.
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KyuuA4



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: America, where anime and manga can be made
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:07 pm Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:
I find, especially with earlier works, that there is little or no care taken to create an atmosphere of authenticity in settings not set in Japan.


This problem is even worse involving "authenticity" of anime made outside Japan. However, if you really want a different view involving settings outside Japan, then anime must be made outside Japan to properly describe non-Japanese settings.

Now, back to anime settings outside Japan...

Essentially, they show how the Japanese could view settings outside Japan. Stereotypes, Impressions, and Interpretations.

If you watch Riding Bean, it's set in Chicago. Now, living near Chicago, I consider Riding Bean to be a very funny rendition of Chicago. It's no-where near like the real thing. Car chases are rather rare around here. It's still fun watching none-the-less.

Though that brings me this thought - producers, artists, and writers can do whatever they want. Plus, "accuracy" or "auntenticity" regarding a setting outside Japan is not very important; the story is.

Quote:
Writers simply use stereotypes or images they get from popular media.


It's the easiest source to use. After all, we have our own impressions on Japan and other countries without ever traveling. Chances are - most Japanese who do travel outside Japan do not necessarily aspire to become part of the anime/manga industry.

LydiaDianne wrote:
I think that it's one of those things that you're supposed to ignore


Exactly! Very Happy

TcDohl wrote:
But often, people who are speaking non-Japanese languages are speaking in that language with a Japanese accent and rather badly.


This is quite particular with Chinese based characters. Their dialog is often slurred or "sounds funny". Just look at Shampoo (Ranma 1/2) and Fei Ku (Negima). In fact, if you look at Excel Saga, they do point out the deliberate use of "funny Japanese" used on "foreign" characters. Pedro!!!!
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:20 pm Reply with quote
It will be interesting to see how anime and Japanese TV in general will start view the French in the future.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061023/od_nm/paris_tourists_dc

Quote:
"In Japanese shops, the customer is king, whereas here assistants hardly look at them ... People using public transport all look stern, and handbag snatchers increase the ill feeling."

A Japanese woman, Aimi, told the paper:

"For us, Paris is a dream city. All the French are beautiful and elegant ... And then, when they arrive, the Japanese find the French character is the complete opposite of their own."


Americans have known about how Parisians have treated tourists for years. Not good for the French Tourism Industry, if Japanese tour agencys start avoiding their country. I work in a mall and I've seen how Japanese tourists spend!
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