Forum - View topicHoney and Clover II
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Bruce Lee
 Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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Yeah, I guess their story was complete, but since the rest of the story needed to go on, they were sort of forgotten, becoming more like spectators at the end. I'm sure you're right, though - they'll be ok - I hope 
That's funny you should mention this - I actually recomend H&C to all of my friends who liked Kare Kano. I like to think of H&C as Kare Kano in College, as it has a bit broader focus, a bit more characters, and is a bit more mature. Thanks for all of the recomendations, too. I had heard of Maria-Sama before, so I think I'll try giving that one a shot next.
I haven't seen MG, but from what I hear, it's not as good as the Japanese LA Hana Yori Dango series. I watched the first season of HYD, and was instantly hooked like 5 minutes into it. Apparently the 2nd season has the same cast returning, and starts back up again in January. As far as I know, both the Anime and Manga are finished, so there probably won't be anything more on that front anytime soon... although there was the Manga equivalent of an OVA a few years back. This was only like a chapter or so, though. I just started to watch the Anime - I'm about 8 eps in or so, but it's sort of hard, as it's sooo old, and has like the 3rd worst OP in the history or Anime. I'm seeing a bunch of differences from the live-action, though, so I'll stick wtih it, as it's probably different enough to keep my attention. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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I really rather like what I've seen of MG. It stays so honest to the anime (haven't read the manga), but has much more enjoyable acting. I'm just a little burned out on the story overall, which is why I haven't watched more.
The anime is...not very good. For some reason, people who don't usually watch romantic comedies sing its praises, but personally I didn't think it was all that great. Very much like a soap opera, and the voice acting (in the Japanese version) was just plain bad. On the other hand, I didn't mind the animation, as I like old stuff, and I absolutely adored the opening. Of course, that being said, I've seen all of the anime (minus the movie) and actually own all the R1 DVDs. It was a trainwreck, but I couldn't get myself to quit watching it anyway. I've always figured that it must have had the same effect on me that daytime soaps have on other people--we know it's bad and overly dramatic, but we can't help but want to see it anyway. To get back on topic, I find it very interesting seeing how many people had certain couples they wanted to see get together, etc. Very early on I liked Takemoto and Hagu together because of their shared innocence and naiveity, but as I realized Hagu's needs that pairing fell away. And I also kind of wished Ayu would get Mayama early on, simply because her feelings for him seemed so innocent and genuine, and his reason for not being with her felt like a defense mechanism (fear of her purity, like Nomiya?) than not being in love. But after he got all spoiler[stalker-like], I decided that wasn't a good pairing in my mind either. So in the end...there wasn't anyone I really wanted to get together with anyone else. Perhaps this is why I was unable to get as 'into' the show as some of the other viewers? I couldn't see the possibility for working relationships between most characters? That is not to say that I feel the two romantic pairings won't work out--I think they're quite nice. However, I didn't have any passionate attachment to either of those formed couples, and sort of feel like I missing out on a bit of the show's magic because of that. |
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vroenis
 Posts: 61 Location: Australia |
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Your comments are fantastic Mylene, much more articulate than the usual 'I didn't like it so it's crap' responses from many when they don't like something. I don't think you're missing out on anything, it's just not the show for you which is perfectly fine. Perhaps the strength of the show in each individual will depend on how much they identify with some or all of the elements portrayed in it. I've watched a few high-school themed (or set) dramas and totally detested the values presented in them, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging that they're great shows for the many people who identify with, which I'm sure you do with Hachikuro. I never had any great aspirations for any pairings of any descriptions, and I rather liked spoiler[the conclusion of the first series that ended with no pairings whatsoever. I loved the great examinations of each character's thoughts and motivations, fears and actions that truth be told, I never thought anyone would end up with a partner. In that sense though, I did feel that each of the pairings was justified, that on a personal level, I received enough information and saw signifficant expressions of emotion from each character that was sufficient enough to make sense of the pairings. In the case of Mayama and Rika, I've had some frighteningly similar experiences as some of what was expressed through their characters, perhaps not in the same context, but powerful enough. That being said, almost all of the characters expressed things that I've either thought in the past or think now.] In the past I've seen anime that seems to bring characters together in an extremely contrived way, and I always feel that it shows an astounding lack of good writing and good sensible values (this is not a question of moral ground by the way, but I think you know what I mean... hopefully), but those of-course are merely matters of personal perception. Bruce Lee, just in-case you hadn't read anything about it, Marimite (Maria-sama ga Miteru) has an all female cast, and many people are turned off by the homosexual shoujo-ai context. There is absolutely no yaoi or yuri in it though, but you'll find that many people now treat the terms yuri and shoujo-ai as interchangeable, which really isn't accurate (the ANN Lexicon is your friend). Marimite really is relationship focussed, and it has some fantastic expressions in it. Strawberry Panic! on the other hand is a little different. When it's being sincere, it's absolutely fantastic, however when it's being contrived or going off on a side-story, it might seem like a trial to get through. Many of the characters in Strawbery Panic! are quite complex, but once in a while they'll be reduced to contrived story devices for filler episodes or episodes that tantamount to delaying actions for the core-narrative. I don't fully hate those episodes, but coming from things like Hachikuro, Parakiss and Marimite, once a series gets full-swing into emotional exploration, I don't like to dramatically deviate from it. As much as the filler episodes of Strawberry Panic! aren't necessarily bad, I tend to think that if you contracted all of the great emotional eps and cut the rest, you'd probably have a nice 13 episode social-drama... which of-course would probably resemble Marimite even more than it already does. Strawberry Panic! is a very different series to Marimite, it's lighter at times and actually does contain one or two brief moments of yuri, but I'm still amazed at some of its subtle depth. Ep 25 was released a few weeks ago and it was really touching, the best of the series yet. There shouldn't be too long of a wait until the final ep is out. |
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Mylene
Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the show. The first series is in my top 20 (just barely) and this is only a few slots lower. However, I didn't have the passion for it like I have had other series, or that others have had. This is a show that fits perfectly into what I enjoy, I just didn't get the, shall we say, 'fangirlish' (and I don't mean that negatively, but rather as a term for passionate enthusiasm) feelings that others might have had, and that I get from other series.
Well-put. I often had trouble with "romance" anime because I feel the development of relationships is just so random and often inappropiate (often calling infatuation 'love', etc). H&C certainly didn't do that, which I completely appreciate. I just wish there had a been a character I was more passionate about. I'm very much a character person, often to the point of not minding a less-than-stellar plot (ie, I love the filler episodes of shows like Sailor Moon, at least when they focus in on an aspect of one of the senshi's lives, etc).
You've found redeeming qualities in Strawberry Panic!? Where, where? (I'm only half-joking there.) I've been completely and utterly disappointed with the show, perhaps because it's target audience is the Japanese guy who happens to be up at 1:45 am watching anime, not a woman. I'm only to episode 20 or 21 right now (trying to force myself through the remainders...I'm at whatever episode where spoiler[Amane has just been tossed from the horse]), but I've really found very few redeeming qualities to the plot or to the characters. The immediate and randomly granted affections for Nagisa by everyone are the hardest part for me to swallow. Perhaps it's jealousy because people don't just automatically see me and think "Wow, I bet she's cute and sweet and nice." Or maybe I just have a thing with friendships slowly developing. My biggest beef with it is how relationships have developed. With the exception of spoiler[Amane and Hikari], I feel they've all been rather...adolescent in approach. Of course, now that I've used that term to describe it, perhaps that is in fact the issue. I cannot relate with these girls because I never had any high school romance, so I've never experienced the more juvenile side of it. Hmm...that's an interesting thought I've just had. I wonder if I should keep that in mind as I finish up the series. It might very well help me get through it. On the other hand, the shoujo-ai definitely isn't a problem for me. All of my favorite anime couples (established or just hinted at) have been female pairings. I've noticed that side-romances, or romances that involve the main characters but aren't the main focus of the story seem to progress in a more believeable and appropriate (in my opinion) manner. Often, the same-sex pairings in the anime I watch are peripheral, usually with a heterosexual relationship in the main spotlight, so that probably explains why I have several female couples I adore, while very few heterosexual relationships that I can tolerate. Err...anyway, can't say that I'll ever recommend Strawberry Panic! to anyone though. It's just turned my stomach and rolled my eyes a few too many times. |
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vroenis
Posts: 61 Location: Australia |
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Hahaha - very well put. There are so many terrible things about Strawberry Panic!, some of them truly stomach turning. It's quite strange for me to have accepted it though, as certainly I've been harsher for shows that have been slightly less contrived.
Nagisa and Tamao are indeed fairly juvenile, actually almost all of the cast is, but I suppose I'm always one to read more into an anime than what may well be there or intended by the creators. When I look at social-drama, be it in anime or otherwise, I tend to seek elements that transcend the setting or context. Kare kano is set in a high-school, but many of the issues addressed by the characters can apply to any relationship on any level, or perhaps that's just what I read into it. In this way, shows like Kare kano and at times Marmite actually take on quite a surreal quality; indeed rarely is anyone in high-school so introspective, sensitive and aware of themselves! But the settings allow the writers some very creative conceits that shape events and help push certain things along in certain directions if you will. I've always enjoyed translating settings, situations and expressions of emotion into different, personally relevant contexts. I know it can be pretty wacky - I've been known to take an artistic representation of say a business person feeling trepidation about an upcoming presentation and translate it to a lover approaching their partner with something deeply emotional... that's just an exmaple, but generally always think through similar excercises when watching anime. What attracts me to it though is perhaps its side characters. There's a lot of dross to cut through with Strawberry panic!, but I'm drawn towards Shizuma and Rokujou. I do also like Amane and Hikari's developments, but there's less to them. Shizuma has pretty much carried me through the series which means that whenever she doesn't have screen-time, my affections for the show start to wane. It's still unfortunate that we don't get to see more deeply into her character, but I'm drawn to characters such as this; Sachiko from Marmitie, Reki from Haibane Renmei, Rika from Hachikuro, even though Rika is perhaps the most subtle of the lot both because of her context in the anime, and her low screen-time. I know Shizuma hardly holds a candle to Reki especially, but I still love her flaws and her deeply personal dilema. As I've said before and in other places than the forums, I still can't help but wish the characters of Strawberry Panic! were set in themes similar to Marimite which for the most part stay sincere. If you can be bothered, I'll PM you with my blog posts about Strawberry Panic!, but they really are just personal thoughts, so they're likely lacking in propper insights written with other readers in mind. I know that many shows are marketted in certain ways, but I tend not to pay any attention to that, and will often take things from art that others don't perhaps see - not because there's anything wrong with them or there's anything elite about myself! Not at all, simply because people are different and will always perceive things in their own way. |
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