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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 1471
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 Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 8:45 pm
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The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)?
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WANNFH
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1841
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 11:31 pm
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| dm wrote: | | The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)? |
There is so many wrongs with that statement, as being in the game industry is pretty much same problem with the working conditions and "higher revenues" mostly have nothing to do with the baseline worker life in the game industry, which have the pretty much same problems as anime (heavy reliance on outsourcing, very high employee turnover, low income in general, and very low level of unionizing).
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Thulebox
Joined: 15 Mar 2024
Posts: 13
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Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 11:34 pm
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| dm wrote: | | The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)? |
Yes because quite often the production company(game studio) itself is the IP holder and if not then they have royalty deals based on game performance or other incentives baked in to their contracts with publishers. Plus a lot of those game studio's that are the IP holder usually give out bonuses based on sales or aggregate critic scores as well.
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WANNFH
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1841
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 1:58 am
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| Thulebox wrote: |
| dm wrote: | | The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)? |
Yes because quite often the production company(game studio) itself is the IP holder and if not then they have royalty deals based on game performance or other incentives baked in to their contracts with publishers. Plus a lot of those game studio's that are the IP holder usually give out bonuses based on sales or aggregate critic scores as well. |
And that is again barely have to do anything with actual baseline workers like 3DCGI modeling or animators in game industry - because that people usually do not even belong to the same company that holds the IP rights (and per usual case developer studios not even have access the IP rights either - it belongs to the game publishers) at all and being outsourcers.
For more clear example - credits of Metaphor: ReFantazio include over 10 different outsource studios just for modeling design, graphic design and animation, including at least four different studios that work with anime (Graphinica, Domerica, Shirogumi, TMS Jinni's) and at least couple of supporting studios from the same anime industry.
Do you think they all get bonuses from Atlus or Sega if the game do well? Hell no, they are nothing but outsource that get their job done for already paid check, nor do Atlus need to care to bring the same people back if they suddenly want to create a sequel.
And that is how the work in game industry actually goes, along with massive closure of studios or reducing staff for underperformance that is way more common that in anime industry (or literally just trying to cover the financial blackholes because of mismanagement), high employee turnover (to the point that some studios barely have even the quarter of same staff working for them after just a few years), massive strikes or game companies going against workers who trying to establish unions to defend their rights.
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Thulebox
Joined: 15 Mar 2024
Posts: 13
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:48 am
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| WANNFH wrote: |
| Thulebox wrote: |
| dm wrote: | | The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)? |
Yes because quite often the production company(game studio) itself is the IP holder and if not then they have royalty deals based on game performance or other incentives baked in to their contracts with publishers. Plus a lot of those game studio's that are the IP holder usually give out bonuses based on sales or aggregate critic scores as well. |
And that is again barely have to do anything with actual baseline workers like 3DCGI modeling or animators in game industry - because that people usually do not even belong to the same company that holds the IP rights (and per usual case developer studios not even have access the IP rights either - it belongs to the game publishers) at all and being outsourcers.
For more clear example - credits of Metaphor: ReFantazio include over 10 different outsource studios just for modeling design, graphic design and animation, including at least four different studios that work with anime (Graphinica, Domerica, Shirogumi, TMS Jinni's) and at least couple of supporting studios from the same anime industry.
Do you think they all get bonuses from Atlus or Sega if the game do well? Hell no, they are nothing but outsource that get their job done for already paid check, nor do Atlus need to care to bring the same people back if they suddenly want to create a sequel.
And that is how the work in game industry actually goes, along with massive closure of studios or reducing staff for underperformance that is way more common that in anime industry (or literally just trying to cover the financial blackholes because of mismanagement), high employee turnover (to the point that some studios barely have even the quarter of same staff working for them after just a few years), massive strikes or game companies going against workers who trying to establish unions to defend their rights. |
Hey I appreciate your passion on this. I only brought up some of the reason's why game development is the lesser of these two evils cause I don't have it in me to write a whole essay on how they're basically the same exploitative industries with some differences that push people to game studios cause again at least they're the lesser of two evils albeit begrudging to say.
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Greed1914
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4642
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:01 pm
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It's pretty clear that there is no silver bullet for this situation. Reducing the number of anime made each season won't help if the price per series stays the same, for example. If anything, it would mean not enough work to keep studios going. And paying more just because you can flies in the face of how businesses operate, so they are always going to look for whoever will take it at a bottom rate.
I will say, it's kind of strange to me to keep reading that supply isn't meeting demand since there is more produced each season than a person can reasonably watch, and it's not like shows disappear entirely when a season ends. I don't disagree with the supply/demand thing being true, but it just makes me wonder what demand isn't being met? Is it streaming services that just want massive libraries? Is it an audience wanting the next big thing in a specific genre? Both maybe? I guess from the perspective of a relatively heavy anime viewer, I think we get plenty, and you can't expect every season to have a smash hit, and if things aren't to your taste, maybe branch out and try something new.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2272
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:09 pm
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| dm wrote: | | The anime industry has had to compete with game makers, for animators, too, hasn't it? Aren't working conditions and pay in the gaming industry better (simply because the revenues are higher -- there's more money coming into the production companies)? |
To add to what WANNFH was saying, the folks who made the game have already been paid. The people who coded the game, made the art, wrote the music—they’ve already gotten their salaries, and there are fewer studios than you can count on one hand that use a different model where they accept a lower salary in exchange for assumed bonuses when the game is expected to do well (this is the case for Gearbox and Borderlands, for example.)
But in most other cases, your money is going to stockholders, the head honchos, the suits at the top.
I believe a similar case is true for anime studios, where a majority of the royalties actually go back to the production committee rather than the studio itself. But it’s been a while since I’ve looked into it and things might’ve changed.
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