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Forum - View topicREVIEW: Doctor Elise: The Royal Lady with the Lamp Anime Series Review
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ab2143
Posts: 762 |
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I heard the last couple episodes deviate from the source material?
I found it hilarious how people experienced medical emergencies whenever Elise was in the vicinity lol |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Associate Editor
 Posts: 2659 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I believe so, in order to come up with a semi-reasonable ending point.
It reminded me of how in those old murder TV shows, like Murder, She Wrote, everywhere the amateur sleuth went, people started getting murdered. You'd think people would figure it out and stop inviting her places! |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18507 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I can't disagree with the flaws Rebecca mentioned and would add the all-too-stereotypical "unwittingly win the disagreeable prince over with my competence" trope. (Really, Elise is nearly as OP as your typical god-gifted isekai protagonist, with the slightly interesting twist that her "power" is advanced medical knowledge.) Despite that, I still liked this one well enough that I give it a mild recommendation and would watch a second season if more ever gets animated.
(And I'm kicking myself for not picking up on the now-obvious Florence Nightengale allusions. . . ) |
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Saeryen
 Posts: 1010 |
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I honestly hate the term “Mary Sue” used unironically nowadays. The whole thing surrounding the term is just about shaming (mostly) girls and women for having any kind of fantasy about being a hero and/or having an ideal life.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24225 |
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Everybody of course is welcome to their own personal interpretation of words and phrases but I find Mary Sue to be a great shorthand for the kind of character Elise is. I don't tag her with that moniker just for her God-like medical skill but because she is the whole Mary Sue package: super competent and flawless personality: kind, self-effacing, supremely understanding, etc. Why not make her a medical marvel AND somebody who likes kicking helpless puppies??? |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 2659 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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If it helps, that's in no way what I mean. I like Elise, and I don't feel that her manhwa version is at all "Mary Sue-ish;" it's one of the faults of the adaptation that she comes across that way at all. Her ambition is one of my favorite things about her. |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 551 Location: Poland |
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While "Mary Sue" is now mostly seen in male MCs of isekai or "kicked out" genre on Narou, so female designation is kinda misleading, it's still good term the sort of character one often sees in fan fiction, where the term comes from, and Narou fiction, which is much like fanfiction but legal, because it's based on generic fantasy and game tropes instead of specific world. It's true that it's often overused nowadays when used for female characters, but Narou stories and their adaptation give often very valid reason to use the term for female characters as well, though male MCs in Narou fiction tend to be even worse Mary Sues on average. Apparently in this case it's more of a fault of adaptation, but frankly many of the villainess stores I've seen are far too close or fit the definition, which makes such perception far more likely. It's the problem of the whole WN/LN scene. Also Mary Sue for me isn't about perfection, Gandalf isn't Mary Sue, nor is Aragorn. It's about more specific feeling that character is always defeating their dumb, foolish and ugly enemies with easy while everyone else, especially their friend and harem members cheers them on. It's a very vapid version of power fantasy with barely any struggle (for example the trope of cheat skill in isekai is often good signifier of Mary Sue MC). Or, it;s about the feeling that character is simply author's favorite to a degree that feels like they have cheat skill "God's unending infinite favor upon the most worthy human in existence". Last edited by a_Bear_in_Bearcave on Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Saeryen
Posts: 1010 |
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Yeah, another thing I dislike about the term is that characters who are kind and empathetic tend to get hit with it a lot. So I myself shouldn't try to be that way...? That seems to be the message of that designation (I do my best to be kind and good, so that's why this matters to me). @Princess_Irene I get what you're saying, even though I didn't see her that way in this adaptation (I personally liked it a lot). Thanks for clarifying. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24225 |
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@ MarySueryen (heh): It is interesting the spin people put on commonly used terms. For you, the term Mary Sue has a negative connotation because you see it as a means to shame females for having aspirations to be heroic or live an ideal life. While I don't agree with that interpretation myself, I can see how somebody might develop it. For me, Mary Sue has a negative connotation because I view such flawless characters as a male wish fulfillment of the type of idealized "good girl" that some guys dig. You'd never see a Mary Sue being brash or angry because that isn't "good girl" behaviour. But mostly I just see Mary Sue-ism as an attempt to create a so-called flawless character who easily sails through all adversity. It's boring and I'm just as opposed to Gary Sue characters. To heck with OPness, I say.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 551 Location: Poland |
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I just realized that in several otome villainess stories where the heroine character of otome game is the antagonist of the reincarnated villainess MC, she's this kind of Mary Sue to everybody else except MC. People start telling MC "why don't you just give up your marriage to the prince, she's clearly so much better, perfect human. Aren't you evil for not rolling over for her?" Basically showing how the badly written version of this character can look to "normal person". |
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Turtleboy76
Posts: 168 |
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Does it always have to be a complaint against women? The male term is a Gary Stu and Isekai have flooded the medium with boring men with shitty writing and godley powers. If people (justifiably) rip those guys apart, the same should apply to woman. Critisim shouldnt separate gender. Equal right, equal fights and all that. Seriously though, Elise is so boring. Compared to something like Bookworm, its a real downgrade. |
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moony_badger
 Posts: 61 |
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This show was okay enough, but it really felt like it paled in comparison to 7th Time Loop that handled most of what this show is trying to do in a much more fun and entertaining way. I also don't think I'd really call Elise a Mary Sue (most because I also do not like that term, I agree with Saeryen here, I've just seen it brandished in bad faith a few too many times) and she ended up being really the only element of show that I thought worked. I liked the first episode a lot, it really showed her passion for medicine, wanting to be a better person, and just how much it means to her that she gets to see her family again. But after that it really lost momentum for me, the stakes were pretty low, and besides Elise (and maybe Linden) I didn't really get attached to any of the characters. Maybe if they'd focused more on the gendered aspects of trying to get into the medical field at this (sort of nebulous) time period or her trying to avert more of the disasters of the past that she knows about ala 7th Time Loop, but nah it just sort of kept to a kind of boring middle ground.
I agree with the time period confusion, that really threw me off. I also think it would have been more interesting if they'd focused on Elise having to adapt her modern world medicine knowledge with a fantasy world that hasn't reached that level of advancement yet. But they just... had everything? I think there was even an episode where they used defibrillators if memory serves me right. Like they're only a decade or two behind modern times. I ended up dropping it about halfway through and I don't think I'll end up picking it back up again, but it was alright for what it was. If it hadn't come out the same season as 7th Time Loop, I probably would have stuck with it longer. |
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SinisterOracle
Posts: 418 |
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FYI the manwha is also available on Lezhin.
Overall, I enjoyed the show enough and would watch a second season if it ever got one. However, I have some complaints. First, the title. In Japanese it means Surgeon Elise, yet we chose doctor in English. Why? Every surgeon is a doctor, but every doctor is not a surgeon. Seems like a bad choice to me. I understand that it’s a nod to Florence Nightingale. But Elise never lit a damn lamp nor did she change the medical field, so if season two isn’t coming this seems wholly unnecessary and rather pointless. I was disappointed we didn’t get to see more of her relationships with Linden and Mikhail. The show made a big deal about how her previous life’s marriage to Linden ended as well as how Mikhail was her best friend (who possibly set her and Linden up to ensure her execution). The battle between the two princes for the crown also felt rather flat. You knew it was happening in the background but that was about it aside from one or two episodes (I can’t remember exactly). Felt like a plot point for the sake of taking up time. I really liked the relationship between Elise and Julian de Childe. It was very heartwarming to see two previous enemies grow up and become friends. I would’ve liked to see more of their relationship too. |
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Nev999
Posts: 168 |
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I don't really see people on here using the term Gary Stu (or even Mary Sue) about these characters with frequency here (it's usually "overpowered, potato-kun") and using the distaff counterpart has never been as popular as Mary Sue. I think it's undeniable the term is associated with female characters- that's why the main term is feminine and the distaff term is masculine, when it's usually the opposite. Specifically, it originated from a fanfic parodying overly charming female self inserts in Star Trek Fanfic. So the idea it's there to criticize male perceptions of what a good girl is is also false. It was a term that inherently was about female characters that fanfic writers- usually teenage girls-- made. And in my experience, this does spread to the term being disproportionately used for female characters, though how disproportionately is debateable. Gary Stu is an afterthought at times. Heck, there isn't even a sole agreed upon name for the male version, I've seen Marty Stu too. I think the term is used a bit less than when I was a kid, partly because it was so over used many got tired of it like I did. People would accuse ANY oc anyone made, especially young girls, of being a Mary Sue because like, other characters fell in love with her or she could fight. There was time when it did seem to be applied to any female character who did anything in published stuff too--I remember I first tired of it when I saw a huge amount people apply it to Alanna from the Song of the Lioness series, despite her having very clear flaws like her temper and having to go through the wringer to earn all of her accomplishments-- but hey, she was a strong willed and battle capable female protagonist in a series aimed at girls, and she had- gasp- purple eyes, I guess that was enough for people. It could also be used unfairly and nebulously for men, but personally, I saw that a lot less frequently than I saw people crying Mary Sue at some girl they'd only seen in a trailer for two seconds. There were those ridiculous Mary Sue tests that deducted a point for any special trait your character had, you apparently weren't allowed to make your character cool or a little bit like you, people became so paranoid about it, there was this idea that if the character had any hint of a power fantasy it was bad, despite the fact there are plenty of beloved characters in literature and comics (tending to be male, especially the father back you go) that function as power fantasies and have cool qualities and lots of girls fall in love with them. It isn't inherently a bad thing, it's just something that can be written poorly. But the way people used the term stifled creativity and the joy of writing imo. You can also see all the ridiculous variations of "Mary Sue" people created for TV Tropes back in the day to see how nebulous and meaningless the term became. You can be a Mary Sue for being good or bad at things, for being too nice or too mean! So that's why Mary Sue honestly became so nebulous it's useless to me, beyond being a word for "character I don't like" sometimes with a side of "let me cackle about how teens writing fanfic are stupid" which is just childish to me. So what if a kid writes a cringe fanfic? That's part of being a kid and part of every writer's journey. They should get to explore that without being smacked down. It seems more productive to me pinpoint specific characteristics, and instead say self insert or bland character because that forces people to explain their reasoning rather than nebulously assign it. Overpowered isekai protag is such a specific phenomenon it kind of has its own terms, as it should, so honestly, Rebecca's review is the first time I've seen someone use Mary Sue in an article here in quite a while. She did explain her reasoing though, rather than simply dismissing the character, so I don't mind it so much. It's just not a term I like. (I wrote a whole essay about this that blew up once, so I kind of just rolled into the discussion because it's one I have a lot of experience with discussing the history of the term and whether it's use is gendered, not because I really take umbrage with the review or think only my perspective is right) |
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MFrontier
Posts: 14254 |
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I enjoyed the show even if I feel like it had the curse of a 1-cour anime where it has to end before the story can really get going, but I found the cast likeable enough and I don't think Elise is a Mary Sue if only because, setting aside her absolute competency at the medical professional (outside terrible handwriting) she's basically just making up for being a complete screw-up in her first life.
(Though that being said I still got the impression they burned her at the stake partially as a scapegoat, kind of like Mia in Tearmoon Empire). I also think the setting was kind of cobbled together...first it looks like a period piece, Victorian-era, esque setting but we've got guns, magic, convenient modern medical tools, etc., though just focusing on the medical aspect at all felt novel. I wish we could've spent a little more time with Elise and Linden together. They were starting to sell me on the relationship by the finale but I also just like the idea of a failed or unfulfilled relationship in a past life getting a second chance. Also, it needed more Juliane. |
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