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Studio Mir Director Kang Hei Chul on The Little Mermaid Twist in The Witcher: Sirens of the Deep




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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6874
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 10:26 am Reply with quote
ANN interview wrote:
KANG: The term "anime" refers to Japanese animation or styles inspired by it, but it carries a connotation that Japanese animation is a unique genre with distinct charms that set it apart from other forms of animation. Of course, interpretations of the term can vary based on cultural and regional contexts, and its definition is continuously expanding.

Japanese animation began under the influence of American animation, such as Disney, and developed its own style during the 1980s, when many notable titles emerged, including Katsuhiro Ōtomo's Akira. The anime industry introduced a new language of animation direction that has inspired producers and artists worldwide.


Well he's not wrong, Japanese animation was influenced by Disney, and even the earliest pre-Tezuka era anime I've watched recently when I borrowed Roots of Japanese anime on DVD from the library:



The animation in those pre-Tezuka anime do resemble a lot like the early American animation from the golden age era, including rubber hose animation also when I watched one of the animation in that DVD. So yeah, I might not like Netflix using "anime" label to applied it to non-Japanese animation that looked like anime, but then again, a lot of early anime that pre-date Tezuka do resemble American animation from that era. So I don't understand why there are anime fans complaining about it assuming they studied their history of animation particularly Japanese animation's history.
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WikiSonic



Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 4:49 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
The animation in those pre-Tezuka anime do resemble a lot like the early American animation from the golden age era, including rubber hose animation also when I watched one of the animation in that DVD. So yeah, I might not like Netflix using "anime" label to applied it to non-Japanese animation that looked like anime, but then again, a lot of early anime that pre-date Tezuka do resemble American animation from that era. So I don't understand why there are anime fans complaining about it assuming they studied their history of animation particularly Japanese animation's history.

Because "anime" isn't a style. It's a term borrowed from Japan that's been used outside of Japan to refer to animation originating from the country. Nowadays it's fairly simple to categorize anime as animated works produced by the animation industry in Japan, an industry which has always been evolving and was never restricted to certain styles or techniques.

I also resent the concept of "looking like anime," when it's pretty easy to tell that these shows weren't produced by Japanese studios. One of the most important aspects of the Japanese animation industry is that it didn't develop into an entirely for-hire industry that merely provides animation for third parties with little creative input of their own. Japanese studios, producers, and animators have been able to build up their image while primarily producing for the domestic market for decades now. Anime has always been whatever Japanese studios want it to be.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6874
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 6:03 pm Reply with quote
WikiSonic wrote:
Because "anime" isn't a style. It's a term borrowed from Japan that's been used outside of Japan to refer to animation originating from the country. Nowadays it's fairly simple to categorize anime as animated works produced by the animation industry in Japan, an industry which has always been evolving and was never restricted to certain styles or techniques.

I also resent the concept of "looking like anime," when it's pretty easy to tell that these shows weren't produced by Japanese studios. One of the most important aspects of the Japanese animation industry is that it didn't develop into an entirely for-hire industry that merely provides animation for third parties with little creative input of their own. Japanese studios, producers, and animators have been able to build up their image while primarily producing for the domestic market for decades now. Anime has always been whatever Japanese studios want it to be.

I don't want to spoil it for you but the definition of anime can get blurred because I'm going to give you this video, do you know are you familiar with Kenny Lauderdale? Because he explained in the video really well on how the definition of anime become blurred, and several titles has muddied the water when it comes to the definition of anime.

Oh, and you don't like it when "looking like anime" is being exploited. Well bad news, even Japanese companies are green-lighting the whole "looking like anime" animation to foreign studios and I'm not talking about South Korea, China, Taiwan, or even Vietnam. I assume you know who Acura is, if I told you they made an "anime" shorts to promote their brand, but they didn't get a Japanese studio to do these animated shorts, they were done by a studio in the UK. And before you asked: No, it's not anime but it's hard to believe Acura would get a UK animation studio to do this and called it "anime" to fool people. This is different compared to how Mercedes-Benz got Production I.G to create animation to promote their brand (and yes, that counts as anime). Now, what do you think's going to happen if more Japanese companies decided to outsource anime to foreign animation studio (which could the US, UK, or Europe), and the Japanese companies still called these "anime, how would you react to that?

Also, as I said, the definition of anime get blurred and messy when it comes to titles, and who get to be classified or come up with what is anime. I mean for example, there has been debate if any Rankin-Bass titles that had animation done by Topcraft (that also applies to titles animated by Toei Animation, Mushi Production) should be re-classified as anime because let say one of their title, The Stingiest Man in Town (a Rankin-Bass/Topcraft's work has been classified as anime by ANN, MAL/Myanimelist, Anilist, and AniDB). If the Stingiest Man in Town is the lone Rankin-Bass/Topcraft title to be classified as anime, then should other Rankin-Bass/Topcraft's work be re-classify as anime too, does that mean The Last Unicorn, or The Flight of Dragons should now be re-classified as anime because of The Stingiest Man In Town is now an anime. When you classified and acknowledge one Rankin-Bass/Topcraft's work as anime, then that's going to make people wonder if other works done by the same studios should now be given anime classification. In this logic, that means The Last Unicorn, and The Flight of Dragons should be re-classified as anime.

I can also make the same argument for Rankin-Bass's stop-motion animation work like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer because the studio that did the animation was also involved with Nutcracker Fantasy (which has also been classified as anime by ANN, MAL/Myanimelist, Anilist, and AniDB). Again, same situation like The Stingiest Man in Town, if one title done by that studio is classified as anime, does that applied to their other works because it uses the same stop-motion technique. If Nutcracker Fantasy is classified as anime by all respective anime database, does that mean that Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer, The Life and Adventure of Santa Claus, Santa Claus is Comin to Town, or any Rankin-Bass's stop-motion work done by that same studio will now have to be re-classified as anime? You see how the definition of anime get blurred and the term get muddied?

Now do you understand why the debate get a bit confusing, and the term "anime" can get blurred?
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WikiSonic



Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2025 8:23 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Now do you understand why the debate get a bit confusing, and the term "anime" can get blurred?

You're correct in identifying that there's a pre-history to the modern anime industry where things aren't so clear. I do feel an argument can be made that what we've come to categorize as Japanese animation is a modern invention with some gray areas. However, I also think that because the brand image of the term "anime" as Japanese animation has garnered so much recognition there is some staying power to the label for the foreseeable future.

mdo7 wrote:
Now, what do you think's going to happen if more Japanese companies decided to outsource anime to foreign animation studio (which could the US, UK, or Europe), and the Japanese companies still called these "anime, how would you react to that?

You're not wrong that the increasing likelihood of collaborative production methods means what we know as anime could change. I do think there's less artistic integrity in commissioning an anime-style ad, however, and so that doesn't bother me too much, although I don't really care for anything that feels the need to advertise itself as "anime," considering the popular usage of the term occurred organically.

Of course, since "anime" referring to Japanese animation specifically was never an official stance, the specificity of its usage could very well change in the future, and even if I find that possibility unpleasant I am only one person with my own definition. When it comes to unequivocally non-Japanese productions being advertised as "anime," though, I can't help but feel that that's an inorganic hijacking of the term which should be discouraged.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 10:41 am Reply with quote
WikiSonic wrote:
You're not wrong that the increasing likelihood of collaborative production methods means what we know as anime could change. I do think there's less artistic integrity in commissioning an anime-style ad, however, and so that doesn't bother me too much, although I don't really care for anything that feels the need to advertise itself as "anime," considering the popular usage of the term occurred organically.

Of course, since "anime" referring to Japanese animation specifically was never an official stance, the specificity of its usage could very well change in the future, and even if I find that possibility unpleasant I am only one person with my own definition. When it comes to unequivocally non-Japanese productions being advertised as "anime," though, I can't help but feel that that's an inorganic hijacking of the term which should be discouraged.

Japan has been outsourcing anime production to foreign countries even outside of East Asia since early 2010's. If Japan continue to outsource anime to like Europe, or Latin America and using animation studio in those continents, do they still qualify or classify as anime? This is where it get more confusing and more headache if you're an anime fan. If Netflix and Acura abusing "anime" isn't enough for you, what if I told you some legitimate websites that specialize in anime gets to decide which Japanese animation is "anime", and which is not.

Now I'm sure you watched (or you know) Scott Pilgrim Takes Off on Netflix. It's been classified as anime by ANN, Anilist, and AniDB. But you know who doesn't recognize it as anime: Myanimelist/MAL!!!

Yep, that's right MAL has refused to recognize Scott Pilgrim and put it on their database despite the Netflix series meets the qualifications to be an anime. This has anger fans of the show, the franchise, and even anime fans that is knowledgeable about anime, and I'm not making this up:

MAL forum thread: Will the Scott Pilgrim anime be added to the database?
MAL forum thread #2: This is anime but Scott Pilgrim isn't?
MAL sub-Reddit thread: Why don't they add "Scott Pilgrim takes off""?

Even to this day, MAL has not added that title to their database, do you see the problem? You see the problem when it comes to who get classified as anime, and MAL refusing to add Scott Pilgrim Take Off in their database while others like ANN, Anilist, and AniDB did it can add to the problem of "what's the definition of anime" question?

MAL even refused to recognize The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim as anime (evidence here), but then again AniDB doesn't recognize it as anime, while Anilist has acknowledge the title as anime on their database. So this is where it gets to the point where we're judging Japanese work which is anime, and which is not.

Oh, and it get weirder, do you know Dante's Inferno: An Animated Epic? Well, ANN's Encyclopedia has recognized this title as anime (see, ANN has called the work an OAV) while MAL, Anilist, and AniDB doesn't recognize it as anime and not on their database. Do you see how confusing it is when a title can get an anime label, while other website specialize in anime doesn't see that same work as anime? Do I think it's anime? I can't called it an anime because it has Korean animation studio involved alongside with Japanese studios (Production I.G, Manglobe also animated for this title).

There's another scenario where I think a work can be classified as anime but ANN, MAL, Anilist, and AniDB won't recognize it as anime. Do you know Catwoman: Hunted? I recognized it as anime and it meets the threshold and it pass my checklist to be an anime when ANN, MAL, Anilist, and AniDB won't classified it as anime. Catwoman: Hunted was animated in Japan by OLM Studio (yes, the same studio that does Pokemon), and it was directed by a Japanese director. How does this not meet the criteria for anime to ANN, MAL, and Anilist?

Now do you understand why the "anime" label get confusing, and frustrating for anime fans like me, it's because several titles do deserve to be classified as anime while websites that specialize in anime gets to decide which Japanese works/titles get to be called "anime", and which is not (ie: MAL refused to classified Scott Pilgrim Takes Off as anime when ANN, Anilist, and AniDB has classfied it as anime on their database). Would Mamoru Hosoda's Belle be still considered anime even if it had animation help and work done by Cartoon Saloon (a well-known animation studio in Ireland)? We are getting to the point where even Japanese animation with unique animation aren't considered anime to some anime fans, and websites specialize in anime, and they get to decide which is anime, and which is not.
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Turtleboy76



Joined: 06 Jun 2023
Posts: 185
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:23 pm Reply with quote
If people call this anime, i bet they call Avatar an anime too.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6874
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:49 am Reply with quote
Turtleboy76 wrote:
If people call this anime, i bet they call Avatar an anime too.

Actually, the definition of anime has become uh let say too confusing, too ambiguous, and too broad, and it's the subject of a topic thread I created 15-20 minutes ago as of this post. Feel free to read it, it'll change your mind how you define anime.
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Turtleboy76



Joined: 06 Jun 2023
Posts: 185
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Yeah nah unless its from Japan its not anime. And while 6 episodes of something like Korra were animated in Japan. Its still a western shown. Anime inspired does not equal anime.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6874
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Turtleboy76 wrote:
Yeah nah unless its from Japan its not anime. And while 6 episodes of something like Korra were animated in Japan. Its still a western shown. Anime inspired does not equal anime.


Uh, were you not aware that Japan has already outsourced their animation outside of Japan to foreign studios in not only Asia, but probably Europe and USA/Canada. So is it still anime if Japan got Powerhouse animation (the one responsible for Netflix's Castlevania) to do the animation?

What if I told you some anime fans on MAL/Myanimelist wanted Afro Samurai and Armitage III to be remove from MAL database because in these fans eyes, they don't qualify as anime, how do you feel about that?
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