Forum - View topicanime backlash
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v1cious
 Posts: 6241 Location: Houston, TX |
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there's been a lot of this going on lately. what do you think will be the next to get bashed? i think it will be Cowboy Bebop, or Sailor Moon.
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BERSERK EVA
 Posts: 271 |
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What do you exactly mean? I dont follow what your saying.
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Delthayre
 Posts: 414 Location: One of the good United States |
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There hasn't been any more anime bashing that usual, which isn't much to begin with. The article on FLCL, which is trivial in the end, caused some furor in the community. But that article was so laughably innacurate that it doesn't have enough credibility to do any damage. The Turner BS&P gets angry letters about their programming all the time, but they have little or no effect, just because that one was public doesn't mean it will do anything. I doubt there is anything worth worrying about.
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v1cious
Posts: 6241 Location: Houston, TX |
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that's not what i meant. i'm talking about fans suddenly turning tail on shows lately. like EVA for example. people used to talk about how great it is, now people are coming out saying it sucks, same with the DBZ fans.
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Otaku no Densetsu
Posts: 20 Location: New York |
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peeps that dont like EVA are just kids tryin to be different and
act like there better than people that like it (although there are some people, like Gatsu, who dont like it for ligitamate reasons) and DBZ does suck plain and simple, i think when it first came on CN it was alot of peoples first anime and now that weve seen the other titles anime has to offer we realize how lame it was... |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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To branch this topic out a little bit, I'm starting to think that anime itself is about to hit a backlash. Anime is absolutely everywhere right now, and the simple fact that it's foreign is enough to piss off a large portion of the country. Most people don't have a problem with something if you can ignore it, but anime is all over TV, the video store, the magazine rack and even the toy shelf. You really can't escape it, and I'm seeing a lot of "enough with this anime crap!" posts on bulletin boards. I overheard some teenagers in Suncoast the other day complaining that they were "Really sick of anime being everywhere all the time". Most big popular trends do suffer backlash; you can use the opening of a major film to sort of encapsulate the phenomenon. Take The Matrix trilogy. Before the film opened, the hype was endless (Joel Silver's "there is no bar" comments didn't help that). Literally a week before the film came out, a few negative reviews got posted and suddenly public perception changed. This new Matrix film wasn't something to be celebrated; instead, it was something to condemn for not living up to ridiculous expectations. Despite being the #2 film of the summer (behind Pixar's fish movie), the general populace decided to simply start disliking the Matrix. Not only were they upset with the new film, but the backlash began hitting the original film (cries of "I didn't like the first one either!" began showing up here and there in film journalism and, indeed, in a few reviews of the newest sequel.). Now, Revolutions has to "fix" the trilogy, "or else". The hype acts like a rubber band; it can only stretch so far before it snaps. Anime might be facing a similar problem; it gets hyped and hyped and grows and grows until people turn their backs on it. I'm not saying this WILL happen and I'm aware that the backlash associated with The Matrix is on a somewhat smaller scale (time-wise) than anime, but I'm still curious to know what people think.
Also, please do not respond (Gatsu, I'm looking at you here, and anyone else who would normally respond that way) with "There was backlash against the Matrix Reloaded because it sucked!". There's backlash against Lord of the Rings as well ("Two Towers isn't as good as Fellowship which had story problems" etc and so on, all said weeks before the film was released) and almost any other major tentpole film before it opens, even cherished classics. This is about a perception phenomenon, not about the actual quality of the released product. Bad buzz kills bad movies, that's a fact, and that isn't what we're arguing here, so don't go there. This is about hype creating backlash, not about bad products creating consumer dislike. -Zac |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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A friend of mine with an art history background tells me that Pre-Raphaelite art suffered a big backlash when modern art came around; people were actually pitching Pre-Raphealite masterworks in the garbage, leaving them in alleys, etc. Now those paintings (the ones that weren't destroyed, anyway) are back in museums and galleries where they belong. It seems that backlashes tend to be as short-term and simpleminded as the overhype that inspires them. In the long term Anime will stick around.
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3794 Location: Montreal |
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You may have a point, Zac. We could apply the same reasoning to Star Wars Episode I. Even thought the quality may not have been great, the backlash against the movie was infinitely higher than the quality warranted. Extreme hype generates extreme expectations which can't help but result in extreme disappointment. Heh, you'd think that people would learn but it's always the same thing whenever the hype gets too high.
So in respect to anime, the question is: is anime currently receiving too much hype? That's a pretty difficult question to answer. How much hype is too much? It's not like anime has gotten pervasive to the point that you can't avoid it (at least not where I live). There's also the question of WHO are going to rebel against anime: the anime watchers themselves or the ones outside the medium? With the live-action movies given as examples, the very people who were raving about them are the ones who start to bash, but in the case of anime I think it's the ones outside the medium who will start to complain against this "Japanese invasion". So that's not the same kind of backlash, it just means there's a new kind of demographic (anime watchers) taking a bigger piece of the TV pie, and the other demographics are unhappy because it means their portion is in consequence reduced. If cheap soap operas started taking an even bigger place on TV, I wouldn't be happy either. As long as the anime watchers themselves don't waver, I think anime is safe. |
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naruto-kun
Posts: 33 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands |
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a few years ago i was assistant editor for Animenia magazine in The Netherlands, which we ourselves financed. around that time anime was becoming quite popular in the importscene.
unfortunately, the Dutch branch of Polygram decided there was money to be made and released anime here. they focused on the mainstream public and ignored the more knowledgeable fans. they released Legend of the Overfiend, Fist of the North Star and similar anime. sure, it gets the people's attention, but anime started getting a bad rep because of it and it only appealed to a small number of people. they only concentrated on the people of whom they thought had money to spend and were willing to spend it on these anime. plus they released series, of which the final episodes were never released or only 1 1/2 years later due to licensing problems. my point is this: it's good to see anime is becoming more widely accepted (live-action adaptations, Spirited Away getting an Oscar), but if big companies see there's money to be made and they market it wrong and go for the quick buck this can indeed cause a backlash. but i think there enough anime labels in the U.S. that won't make the same misstake. and there a few Dutch labels that handle things differently now too, which gives me the confidence to invest in the series they release. 
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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I don't think that anime is mainstream enough right now to cause a serious backlash against it. Matrix, LOTR, Star Wars, were all very mainstream and for a diverse audience. At this time, if anyone were to "bash" anime, it would be those outside the anime circle, so to say. However, if anime were to become so large as say, the matrix, LOTR, or Star Wars, I think the anime fans would rebel. I think part of the appeal of the anime genre is that it isn't mainstream. There's a sense of...security and exclusiveness in that, I guess? Hopefully things won't get like naruto-kun said happened in the Netherlands. Quality over quantity...
But, really I don't see anime ever becoming insanely popular in the US. I'm trying to say something somewhat intellegent, but I don't think it's coming out that way, oh well. 
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avius viator
 Posts: 101 Location: Ohio |
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Interesting question. The way I see it, anime is becoming a bit of a fad right now. Stylistically, it is new and different (to the general public). The increased exposure; due to the influx of childern's shows and increase in liscensing of series to DVD; had made it more... visible. Perhaps the public is more accepting of it, yet at the same time its still sparse enough to be "cool" and "unique". I guess there is a line somewhere, when it becomes too popular, overmarketed, and looses its appeal to many. I agree with Dan42 that its difficult to judge where that over-hyped line is... but I honestly don't think we're at that point yet... though it may be looming on the horizon.
As for the backlash, its all part of the ebb and flow of popularity. Some people like anime for the soul reason that it is a somewhat arcane hobby, and they'll be backlash from them as popularity increases. Some people will dislike it simply because they think they are seeing it everywhere. And those of us who like it for what it is will (hopefully) dismiss the hype and continue do what we do. To bring it back to Zac's Matrix analogy, the first movie ended up developing into a cult film. It was different and cool... but the sequel took away some of that uniqueness... sequels often have the affect of taking a good idea and beating you senseless with it. So, anime on TV, in advertisments, in toy stores, etc will have the same effect. US companies have been building up the childern;s shows (Pokemon, etc) so, that is the new concept of anime... and thats what everyone is going to get sick of.... and thats where the backlash starts... |
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qollocust
 Posts: 182 Location: Philadelphia |
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I was thinking about this the other day, but I don't think it will affect the true anime fan base. I've noticed that anime is a lot easier to find nowadays and a lot more titles are available, however anime companies aren't hyping their releases on tv or mainstream magazines - just in anime-oriented magazines, websites, and conventions. This only surrounds the anime fan with anime. I dunno maybe it's just where I live, but I don't see any serious anime backlash in the future - just on certain shows (i.e. Pokemon, DBZ, etc.)
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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That is what I was trying to say, but it didn't come out quite so eloquently... Good point avius viator
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Centurion
 Posts: 5 Location: New York |
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This is an interesting subject and i think that lianncoop's usage of the word "genre" to describe what anime is really touches on what is happening for the long term. Anime is in that tenuous grey area between "genre" and "medium." This isn’t the first time that anime was "everywhere" in the U.S. (i'm not really old enough to remember Speed Racer, Voltron, Robotech etc but knowing the effects they had and how they would move the industry and fandom are very relevant to what's happening today. (to the hard core otaku, those titles are considered absolute profanity so sorry for not calling them Mach Go Go Go, Go Lion and Macross).
But back to the point at hand; gone are the days of when ADV had just 2 real titles and a bunch of porn, when you could pick up every commercially available anime release with less than a single paycheck and run over to S Baldric (AKA E. Monsoon) for everything else. The first step in this process happened long ago, when news programs and mainstream magazines dropped the word Japanese animation or Japanimation, and starting using the word "anime" proper. Now American Otaku are fast going to become separated from each other much as their Japanese counterparts have long been structured. I was at the Japan society where a lovely presentation was made contrasting Japanese fandom with American. In the Japanese model, the various subgroups of anime Otaku were almost completely disconnected from each other. The American model had a giant mass of all the various strata of fandom under the giant heading of simply "Otaku." This apparent backlash is a symptom of anime turning from a genre (i saw Akira, and its an anime, so all anime have to be bloody and violent and set in post-apocalyptic neo-mega-uber tokyo and have motorcycles in them right...?) into a medium... so what kind of Otaku are you? We will have to start putting words in front of Otaku now. Mecca-Otaku, Shojo-Otaku, Manga-Otaku, Music-Otaku, LD-Otaku...? (any of those still out there?) I saw a post somewhere about Anime conventions turning into trade shows. I haven't read it yet, but therein lies another symptom. A trade show is where the industry and fans come to get general information and set up deals and partnerships. The one different thing is that they are attended by gajillions of people and the-groups have to fend for themselves. An anime convention will always be a place with relatively few people and where you can stay up all night and go to room parties of people you dont know and drink aviation fuel while watching the video of the cos-play you just saw and all that. Likewise the industry and fandom is splitting up. Soon there wont be a simple "anime" DVD section anymore but headers in the section like "action", "drama" "children's" "Sci-Fi." But we're not there yet. The fact that this process is not happening smoothly or predictably proves that this is not some sort of giant corporate plan by evil companies to homogenize or take the life out of the anime we hold so dear, it is just the natural evolution of the world in which we are living. ...oh well. |
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Ferquin
 Posts: 297 Location: Renton, WA, USA |
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I have to agree with Zac in that if the hype gets too bad, then yes, there will be a backlash. Look what happened to Pokémon. As avius said, it's treated like a fad, although it's hard to just pigeonhole a whole genre of animation as a mere fad. But, anime will stick around in America because it's a great vehicle for storytelling and a great genre of animation enjoyed by many. (And so will Pokémon since the games are really fun.
)
I find that outside of anime/animation and some gaming forums, I hardly know anybody that actually likes anime. Much anime hate comes from people that like American animation way too much (i.e the older people who grew up on Looney Tunes, Disney and/or old 80s cartoons) and occasionally from people who are in the American animation industry. Many of them are bitter that American animators are being put out of work by "those damn Japanese". There are also just plain old racists who hate anything un-American. And then, there's the boring, uncultured people like stay-at-home soccer moms who've lived sheltered lives and generally don't "get" anything outside of general pop culture, and fear strange, different things like anime. If any of you have gone to the Adult Swim forums on their official site, you basically have a sampling of all the above-mentioned people all collected in one place, except for maybe the animators. Anyway, I can feel that rubber band about to snap soon. It will happen. It depends on how far the rubber band stretches before it breaks. Unless Hollywood milks it to death, it probably won't be as bad as predicted, but it will come to a head and it will hurt. Also, to go back to the original topic, I notice quite a bit of snobbery going on coming from today's otaku. They generally fall into two camps: Hypocritical, old-school fans The hardcore old fans complain that their hobby is becoming too mainstream, and, as someone mentioned earlier, they turn around and bash DBZ and Eva because it's no longer their precious obscure toy anymore and all these newbies are messing everything up. These old nerds relish in being different and once something becomes remotely popular, they turn their backs on it and forget that it was ever cool, labeling it as "overrated". They'll just move on and continue to brag about the latest obscure title coming out of Japan, hailing it as the greatest title ever (i.e. people who once thought Cowboy Bebop was the best thing since sliced bread, discovered Wolf's Rain fansubs, then say CB is now overrated since it was broadcast on Cartoon Network.) These fans are the ones that have been watching anime since college on old VHS fansubs since the early 90s, reading various mags like Protoculture and Animerica since they started, and have been attending cons forever. Obsessive newbie fans From the young fans, I'm finding these extremely anal-retentive dub-haters that will not settle for anything less than uncut, perfectly translated, subtitled Japanese. These tend to be the idiots that relish in getting "perfectly translated" fansubs, hate buying the commercial releases because it's "dumbed down" and refuse to watch mainstream TV broadcasts because they're "butchered". They hate Toonami, but sorta like Adult Swim but still whine when something gets edited. They epecially hate companies like 4Kids for butchering Yu-Gi-Oh and the "soon-to-be-destroyed" Shaman King. These fans tend to be young preteens, having been spoon-fed anime on TV, suddenly finding out about edits on the Internet, then going violently crazy because they've been "robbed" of uncut anime. They also turn their backs on mainstream anime, calling it "overrated" thinking stuff like that is beneath them, and are even more zealous in their worship of the new obscure anime coming out of Japan. Anyway, that's my take on anime bashing. Anime in general is hated by generic American animation lovers. Mainstream anime is hated (and is being slowly eroded) by the old-school fans and the overly-zealous newbie fans. The only solution (I think) to this ridiculous problem of anime hate is simply by being a fan taking things easy and enjoy anime as they are instead of being a fanatic and taking things way too seriously. It's like the difference between your average church-goer and a Satanic cultist. I can't claim that I've never been either or 'cause goodness knows I've fallen into both camps at one point or another. But that's generally what I've been seeing happening since anime came exploding onto the main scene. |
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