Forum - View topicSF Debris reviews Eva 1.11.
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UnrestrictedMethod
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SF Debris is an internet reviewer who combines humor with analysis to insight and entertain. He largely sticks to Trek but has recently reviewed 1.11. His review was not positive. This is distressing as his previous work merits him respect and hence his opinion weight. His review can be found here. Although watching his whole review is highly recommended I'll provide a rundown of his problems with the film:
> It makes no sense. Keeping the plot mysterious is alright but there's such a thing as overdoing it. > It's absurd to have a child- one with no experience at that- put into combat with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Moreover they handle Shinji incompetently, namely by failing to protect him (letting him get punched by Toji). > The changing room scene showing Rei nude is disturbing due to Rei's young age. > The tone is inconsistent; a penguin reading a newspaper has no place in a film that intends to be taken seriously. > Misato is a "bitch", telling Shinji to just leave if he can't handle it, never mind that he DID leave and was brought back by her goons. > The religious symbols are only there to look cool. Why he didn't enjoy the film isn't hard to understand. Beginning his review he explains that as these films are meant to be accessible to those who aren’t familiar with the franchise he’s decided to review them without having done any research, judging them entirely on their own merits contra his usual way of going about things. This, of course, is a false premise. While Rebuild is meant to appeal to those who aren’t already Eva fans it isn't meant to appeal to those who aren't already familiar with Eva. Since Eva is part a Japan's popular culture everyone is familiar with the story whether they want to be or not, just as you'd be hard pressed to find an American who doesn't have at least a basic familiarity with story of Star Wars even among those who haven't seen the films. What is a deeply opaque story even to hardcore fans is downright impenetrable to those who haven’t seen the original series or lived in Japan. That said, because he does provide an outside perspective he puts forth a fresh perspective worth discussing. My responses: > Again, 1.11 is not meant for American audiences, especially those with little to no anime experience. Those of us who've seen Eva know why this franchise is a big deal. > Misato is not a "bitch" for telling Shinji he can leave. Shinji didn't come back because he was forced he came back because his act of rebellion/soul searching had gone on for long enough. Misato understands this and tells Shinji if he can't handle it leave for real, make it official and don't bother them with another tantrum like this. This is all ascertainable from the film alone. > It's a shame SF glossed over the scene where Shinji trips and falls on Rei. That she reacted nonchalantly to that incident but not to Shinji deriding his father is insightful into her character and a compelling point in the film's favor. Again, this is ascertainable without reference to the rest of the franchise. > Deriding Pen-Pen is understandable, however, from a personal perspective of all the obligatory cutsey characters in anime Pen-Pen is easily the most charming I know of. If anything the film is flawed for not including him more. > The fact that Shinji is being handled incompetently is part of the point. Contrast the fact that Shinji holds the fate of the world in his hands with the fact that he's an extremely emotionally frail person reluctant to take on his heroic role and consider what message the films are poised to deliver. (For that matter, consider what message End of Evangelion did deliver.) Those are my thoughts regarding this review, what are yours? |
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nobahn
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One of these days (or months, or years) I'm going to have watch this series if only to see what all of the damned hype is all about!!!
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8507 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Why can't they decide what they're doing with these videos? Is it a review? A Rifftrax thing? And it's three parts to cover one movie? Are they unable to edit?
The videos go nowhere. The points this person makes are flawed, too, and not even that funny, as they're the same flawed, "clever" observations that have been made for the time since the TV show's debut. Back in 1995. This is like if Plinkett were drained of his funny. Also, the movies are plenty accessible to those who've never seen the TV series. In what way aren't they? They're introducing the viewer to the world and technology of the story as it progresses. "Fresh perspective". There aren't any fresh perspectives on Evangelion. There hasn't been one in a decade. |
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walw6pK4Alo
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"Little to no anime experience and no knowledge of the subject matter." Don't watch Eva. I know it's wrong what I'm about to say, but I do prefer reviews by people who do know anime. JesuOtaku, GrumpyJiisan, Bennett the Sage, the people who review here, various podcasts, etc. Otherwise you get "I'm confused" or "it's by Miyazaki, A+ regardless of content.
There's absolutely no chance that the Eva Rebuilds were made for people unfamiliar with Evangelion, which is impossible if you're an otaku in Japan, and unlikely if you're an otaku abroad. Even if you've never seen the original series, chances are you know of it or know someone who has seen it. So you watch the movie and you're confused, good, now go back and watch the TV series. It doesn't help that Rebuild contains tons of imagery and carries the possibility of spoiler[being a sequel/redone version in-universe to End of Evangelion], making it very hard to recommend it to newcomers. I don't care if Anno himself said it was openly available, he's wrong. I'm about four minutes into the review and I already tell this guy isn't worth watching, making dumb attempts at comedy and general lack of knowledge pertaining to the series. Reviews like this are pointless, unless they have general criticisms to point out instead of following the film and giving a play-by-play. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8507 Location: Penguinopolis |
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What, exactly, is so difficult to follow for new viewers? Especially in the first movie which is just the first five episodes of the TV series with new animation. The second movie builds on that first movie, so all you needed to do is watch the first. Now, surely fans of the TV series would get more out of the movies, but to say it's difficult to follow for newcomers? There's nothing that makes it any less confusing than watching the TV series for the first time. |
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WallNotifyer
Posts: 20 |
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That review was just sloppy. It wasn't funny at all (I've never gotten what people think is funny about SF's reviews; he's not that clever or that talented. Compare him to RedLetterMedia, the Cinema Snob... I even like the Nostalgia Critic and Spoony more), and even if it was it really detracted from the focus of that review. The review went on WAY too long considering that he was regurgitating the same basic ideas over and over again. I like detailed critiques (look at the people I've cited as respecting more than him, and this post itself!), but I don't like people making reviews longer than they need to be. Make your point once and then move on, unless the new example provides some new content to work with.
There's some just weird things in the review (The first one that comes to mind is having Mari piloting Unit 05 in the intro to your 1.11 review) that make me wonder exactly what he was going for. Maybe he's going to review the sequel as well? (That is something I HATE by the way, unless it's done brilliantly. "Oh, this movie sucked. Let's watch the sequel! It'll surely be better, especially when it continues the same storyline!"). Now, let's look at the horrible (and repetitive) criticisms he had: Blending humor and seriousness is a problem? Does he dislike approximately 33-50% of all film? Because that kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME. Mixing genres is a good way to both keep the audience on their toes, set a certain mood/tone for the current scene, and simply add nuance to the work. SF Debris not knowing what was going on is barely an indicator regarding the movie's quality, but for the sake of argument, let's treat at as one. I think I'll kick the crutch out from under his premise first. You don't get what's going on? Maybe the parts you don't get are the parts that Anno doesn't want you to get yet. This is Part 1 of a 4 part movie series. SF Debris HAS to know that much, right? There are plenty of things not really touched upon because they don't need to be yet, or things that Hideaki doesn't want the viewer to know yet. (Though I am surprised that they've talked about Lillith but haven't said anything about ADAM being the cause of Second Impact. Interested if that'll end up being a plot point.) I won't be surprised if one of his main criticisms in his 2.22 review is that we don't know that much about Mari's allegiances, motivations, etc. yet. He just completely missed the point. In addition, the film does deal with a lot of subtleties. Sometimes silent shots are some of the most meaningful. Sometimes things just don't need to be said. Sometimes there are multiple layers to certain dialogue exchanges or events. There are several instances where he just missed the mark because of that. I completely agree with penguin; you don't have to have seen the previous parts of the franchise for this movie to succeed. That's how it was meant to be, and it does a fine job. I don't mean to be a snob about this, I really don't. But if you really have that much trouble following the movie, then it's a sign that you're not paying close enough attention. The movie does have a lot of nuances and layers to it, which may be tricky to catch. As a result, being accustomed to those layers by having a history of watching EVA products does help. But it is unnecessary. And I can prove that he wasn't paying close enough attention, because HE STATES FACTUALLY INCORRECT THINGS IN HIS REVIEW. Let's just go with the ones you mentioned. Misato was a bitch for telling Shinji that he could leave? Did he not notice the various times that Shinji was continually complaining about being at NERV, being a pilot, etc? That was Misato saying "Hey, you want to go? Here's the door. I'm not going to stop you. It's your choice." That's the opposite of being a bitch. It would have been a bitch move for her to have FORCED Shinji to stay. And anybody who would argue that this isn't in the movie is absurd: it's one of the key themes of the movie! The movie is all about Shinji accepting his responsibilities, opening up to others, and really beginning to grow up and do things because he wants to, and not because others told him to. Which, as I recall, is an issue that Ritsuko notes Shinji has in the film itself. Meanwhile, they handle Shinji incompetently for letting him get beat up? SF Debris has even less of an excuse for not getting this one. There was a dialogue exchange between Ritsuko and Misato in the film regarding that. (Oh, and he didn't get "beat up". Toji punched him. To argue otherwise is massive hyperbole at best.) Ritsuko basically asks "Hey, what happened to Shinji's security team?" And Misato responded "Oh, they were there and making sure things didn't get out of hand. But it's best to have Shinji deal with his own personal problems." That is, again, the opposite of incompetent. Disagree with the choice? Make a case. But otherwise it just makes it sound like you don't know what you're talking about. After writing this, I like the review even less. It was just awful. Please don't do 2.22 Debris, I like that movie more and this clearly isn't your thing. Stick to Star Trek and Doctor Who, please. Last edited by WallNotifyer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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UnrestrictedMethod
Posts: 80 |
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I’m tired so I’m not going to respond to that much right now.
It's a review meant to be entertaining.
He goes into detail covering the whole movie. That’s a good thing.
In exactly what way do they “go nowhere”? He covers the whole movie and ends with his overall thoughts. There is zero reasonable sense in which that is “nowhere”.
It’s true his humor isn’t at its best although I did laugh on occasion despite being distraught by his negativity. Keep in mind the guy is out of his element; his Trek reviews are funnier. ----- For whatever it matters, he did also review Ghost in the Shell and episodes one and five of Cowboy Bebop |
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WallNotifyer
Posts: 20 |
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And SF Debris is unique among those reviewers, because he continually struggles to maintain a coherent focus between serious critique and humor. The shifts are so haphazard that it kills what effect the jokes would have had.
Not when A. He repeats the same points over and over using different words. B. He actually gets what happens in the movie wrong.
It meanders about constantly, and there isn't a coherent enough hook or review structure.
He clearly is, and he should have realized that while editing. He deserves harsh criticism for releasing something this bad. |
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