Forum - View topicNEWS: Art Print Raises Funds for Iowan Accused of Obscene Manga
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GeneralArrow
 Posts: 225 Location: United States |
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I have doubts that he won't. Though I hope he wins this case for all manga readers every were.
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sunflowerseed
 Posts: 106 Location: South Texas |
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That is an interesting print being offered up to generate law fees. In a way it looks like the 'plumber joe' guy from the recent election? This month the law for the Child Online Protection Act has been removed as it was declared unconstitutional. If that law was unconstitutional, its possible the one'(s) being used by Iowa could be too.
Remember the uproar here is manga stop motion drawing. Thats the thing that separates manga from comics. As was described in the very article none of the 'persons' in the manga book were minors but appeared to be minors. Also remember, many of the Japanese remain young looking into middle age and since someone who is Japanese is drawing it, it is only natural that they would relegate the best images of perfection to their works of art. The laws being used by Iowa could be so loosely based that they can only be used in a court of law that existed in the late 1890's. Until things are clear and to the point this type of possible witch hunt vengeance in the courts of the USA will continue. If Chris H. was not part of a CP ring and did not do things like that how can the courts say he did? I hope the lawyers for Chris H. have a clear and calm thinking about them as this starts. |
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DFBTG
Posts: 385 Location: Hell |
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Such a sad thing that this is even happening. Assuming he wins, I guess it's a good thing, because future cases of the like would be deterred and even if they weren't, the defense would only have to point to this. Granted, I'd still rather have not had any of this happen. I'm sure nobody involved is exactly enjoying themselves at the moment. Heck, I'm not even directly involved and this is rubbing me the wrong way.
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bluesheep02
Posts: 78 Location: Tokyo, Japan |
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The art print really isn't relevant to this case. Freedom of Speech isn't really being jeopardized. The man is most likely a pervert who enjoys drawn child porn. It's disgusting. I think it's extreme that he may get jail time, but it's still disgusting.
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Kougeru
 Posts: 5599 |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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The thing that I can't help but think with cases like this is always that it's about drawings. Not real children and in this case, not even FICTIONAL children but just characters that appear to be underage. This article might be of some interest since it involves a real-life version of the "that looks like a child we must persecute and prosecute" situation. Kind of frightening to think that someone can be prosecuted for child porn and the evidence against them can be images of a porn star who got into it when she was 20!
I can understand the argument that it's too difficult to prove how old someone is in the videos and images found on the net that appear to be child porn but when that's what the entire case against someone is built on, I think you just have to accept the need to do the work or drop the case. The burden of proof is on the prosecution and the state. The idea that you can just say "oh, it's too hard to check this" is kind of frightening. It's not like there aren't people of consenting age that look much younger and people who are below consenting age who look much older. People develop at different rates and then you've got people who suffer from illnesses that affect physical development like aging diseases. Still, in the Iowa case, it's not even real people being looked at and there's just something very wrong about prosecuting someone over drawings. At least, that's how I see it. I mean, it just seems so arbitrary and pointless. What? Do fictional people have human rights now? (Does this mean playing war simulation games makes me guilty of Crimes of Aggression? Oh, wait, the double standard only applies to porn! Silly me.  )
I kind of like the art print. I'm planning to donate when I get my credit card paid off a bit. (Assuming I can resist the siren's call of anime for a bit.) @ Kougeru: From what I've read, it's not even real Shota in this case but Yaoi with two guys who look young. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Sorry but I think that this is overblown. Freedom of Speech is not being jeoparized here. I can't believe that people are equating an obscenity charge with a human's rights violation.
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Ghiblix2
 Posts: 42 Location: San Diego |
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kogeru I think you are very wrong about the notion that the fact that it is only drawn therefore it renders it harmless. America takes child porn very seriously and even the possession of 'fake' child porn can get you into a lot of trouble for it is (I believe) a crime.
Freedom of speech is one thing but it has boundaries as well. I think this guy was caught with more than just obscene manga which is why he is in all this trouble or am I thinking of another pedophile who was recently in the news? Anyway, the fear is that 'fake' child porn will lead to real child porn and both of which will foster the desire for some real live kids. The logic is obvious and when it comes to protecting their kids, Americans don't take such things so lightly. However, 20 years for 'obscene manga' sounds completely absurd. Since when do we convict and sentence someone for possession and nothing else, not even one act? Surely there's more to this story. |
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The_Libertarian_Otaku
 Posts: 189 |
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Uh, the guy's being charged for possessing manga when it doesn't directly affect anyone else. How is that not a human rights violation? Another reason why obscenity laws are unconstitutional, kids. |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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You are thinking of a different case. Handley got caught importing some manga from Japan. They found no real CP in his home (or he would be charged for it) and is only being charged with the titles he received in the mail. We don't even know what the titles are, people just keep assuming it is loli or shota. It could just be that he had regular BL with high school aged characters in it (something that is very common in a lot of the BL that gets licensed here). We sit here talking about how "it must have been really graphic or disgusting for him to even get charged with, so it must have been shota or loli," when, really, our concept of "obscene" and the concept of "obscene" of people outside the anime/manga community can very well be very different. My mother thinks anything that has sexualized depictions is disgusting, regardless of the ages, genders, etc. of the characters. So, please, let's not decide what kind of person this makes Chris Handley until we, at the very least, know what the titles were. Until then, let's not forget the principle of our justice system: presumption of innocence. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Have you been following this case at all? The defendant ordered some manga which was inspected by the post office (as they have the right to do) & somone decided the men depicted in one or more yaoi titles were 1) rather androgynous looking & 2) at least one of the sex partners looked underage. Considering this was imported from Japan, short of the inspector actually being able to READ Japanese (which I have a lot of faith all the postal inspectors in every post office in the US can fluently read every language on the planet), we're going off someone's opinion of how old the parties involved are. How is free speech NOT being affected? An artist made a comic book & someone else who maybe can or cannot read it has said someone else can't possess that item? Is there any proof fictional art cause actual crime? I know I've seen lots of people slaughtered in horrible ways in the horror movies I've watched, but have never wished to murder anyone in any of those ways. If a person reads lolicon (NOT THAT THIS IS EVEN ABOUT LOLICON) & states s/he is reading it because it's about cute characters, can you say they're automatically lying? Don't we have teen idols prancing around like sluts on MTV, magazines & whatnot, SUGGESTING they want to have sex with each & every person who will buy their music/see their show/etc? Posing for posters to hang on the wall--the stuff of fantasy? Haven't we seen more than a few centuries old "children" in vampire or sci-fi stories--adult in yrs, child-like in body? Last I saw, no one even knows the titles involved so we can't even say whether the characters look underage or not. Not to mention underage to you may not look underage to others. Why do you think they card people to buy ciggies or booze? Last study I saw produced results that even bartenders who one would think have more than a little experience with ages are no better than guessing on who's legal & who isn't. Yes, it FEELS like playing with fire--if you can't legally have sex with a child, why read it? However, where's the solid data looking at art entices criminals to act out their desires? If it exists, why aren't they banning all sorts of violent movies & games? (banning-not rating) |
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malik_chan
 Posts: 134 |
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I'm sorry, but giving up a freedom for security is rather dumb in my opinion. The logic is obvious? Are you implying that drawn CP will lead to someone actually molesting a child? If you are, please provide proof to back this up. In which case, I don't even think the information about what kind of manga he possessed was released anyway. I've been hearing rumors that it was yaoi. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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No, that's all there is to this story. In fact, there's even less to this story in reality. It's a witch hunt pure and simple. The word "child porn" is being thrown around just to add fuel to the fires and would probably taint the jurors mind as well, even though the courts already ruled that this was not such a case, thus the prosecutors had to settle for the obscenity charge. As The_Libertarian_Otaku said, this is unconstitutional, period. |
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Arcwave
 Posts: 246 Location: Seattle |
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Um, what? I'm confused. This guy is getting 20 years just for having adult manga? I guess I'm screwed also...
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GATSU
Posts: 15597 |
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I say. Even if you agree with the prosecution, you at least have to admit that 20 years is a fairly fascist sentence. Most rapists and murderers don't get that much time in prison. I guess now that they've run out of people to prosecute in the War on Drugs, the War on Porn is next.
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