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INTEREST: 'Anime Babes' Burlesque Show Staged in Los Angeles


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:54 pm Reply with quote
Ghidra999 wrote:
Quote:
And you read, miscomprehend, and over react like someone from 4chan.


Please stop with the pretentious bs. You came into a thread about some women doing burlesque for fun and your only input was about them being whores addicted to drugs and they shouldn't be allowed to do it because they may have male relatives. I don't really care if you have 400,000 posts here, no one wants to hear your oldman sexist BS. Leave it back in the 1970's when you were probably the same age as those women.
Are you implying that those women look like they are in their late 50's? Perhaps I'm miscomprehending what you are saying now. I can not see where I've directly called any of them "whores" or said they "shouldn't be allowed to do it". If they want to, and are quite happy to strip in a burlesque show for free, and for fun, then who am I to say they shouldn't? But do you know if that is actually the case? Do you know these women enough to say they are " just having fun enjoying their hobby", not possibily earning an income the best way they can in these recessionary times? Back in the 70's I would have said yes, because back then it was pre-AIDS, free love, and anything goes, but today? If they are stripping to earn a living, and you can't really deny that that would never be the case if you don't know them any more than I, then that's where I would find it dehumanising for them to have to do that. Is that being sexist to be concerned about the dignity of these women in human society? Then I guess I'm guilty as charged.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15386
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:59 pm Reply with quote
To the haters, to be honest, I don't really understand how what those girls are doing is any worse than certain female cosplayers at cons who dress skimpy to get free food and drinks. Rolling Eyes
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:13 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
To the haters, to be honest, I don't really understand how what those girls are doing is any worse than certain female cosplayers at cons who dress skimpy to get free food and drinks. Rolling Eyes
Must be a field day for all the glompers at those conventions then. Wink
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Ghidra999 wrote:
And what's your point? That people other than you want to do things that you don't want to do? Do you want to feel special that everyone is supposed to meet your expectations for yourself or something?


Oh mellow out. I just said I didn't get why they would want to. Nothing more. There's absolutely no reason to get all defensive and start making wild and baseless accusations.

Quote:
There's a reason why doing things like that can be a positive experience for women. Part of it is an act of defiance against people telling them what they can or can not due based on some ancient pseudo-moral nonsense and sexist cultural norms.


I don't know...that seems pretty inane to me. It's the same old problem with non-conformism for it's own sake. Yeah, fine. You don't like 'society' or whatever telling you what to do. However, if that causes you to turn around and do something else you don't want to do purely for the sake of defiance then you're really still being controlled just as much.

Anyway though, I guess you're right that some people do see it as you do so maybe that is a partial explanation for why they choose to do it. Still from my perspective it seems sad that they feel they have to resort to that just to be defiant.
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:34 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Ghidra999 wrote:
And what's your point? That people other than you want to do things that you don't want to do? Do you want to feel special that everyone is supposed to meet your expectations for yourself or something?


Oh mellow out. I just said I didn't get why they would want to. Nothing more. There's absolutely no reason to get all defensive and start making wild and baseless accusations.

Quote:
There's a reason why doing things like that can be a positive experience for women. Part of it is an act of defiance against people telling them what they can or can not due based on some ancient pseudo-moral nonsense and sexist cultural norms.


I don't know...that seems pretty inane to me. It's the same old problem with non-conformism for it's own sake. Yeah, fine. You don't like 'society' or whatever telling you what to do. However, if that causes you to turn around and do something else you don't want to do purely for the sake of defiance then you're really still being controlled just as much.

Anyway though, I guess you're right that some people do see it as you do so maybe that is a partial explanation for why they choose to do it. Still from my perspective it seems sad that they feel they have to resort to that just to be defiant.


That's not a good argument. You could simply tag anything that doesn't meet your standards or norms as being "non-conformist for non-conformist sake." I mean they're not acting like you're supposed to be, so they're obviously just doing it to go against the grain right? It's circular reasoning to defend your own position.

And I only said part of it was an act of defiance. Women for pretty much 300 years in this country were told they couldn't act sexy or they were "whores" and were shunned by society. In the past, it wasn't even believed by the public at large they enjoyed or should enjoy sex. It was something owned by the opposite sex.

What this is really about is being free to do what they want. They want to do this. They aren't being dehumanized. They are obviously just having some fun. If there's any dehumanizing going on its by people who have to auatomatically judge these girls over something like a burlesque cosplay out of some kneejerk prudishness. But that's the fault of kneejerkers, not the girls' fault.

And you're not supposed to understand everything other people do or enjoy doing. I really don't understand why football is entertaining, but obviously its none of my business why others like to watch it.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:29 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Ghidra999 wrote:
And what's your point? That people other than you want to do things that you don't want to do? Do you want to feel special that everyone is supposed to meet your expectations for yourself or something?


Oh mellow out. I just said I didn't get why they would want to. Nothing more. There's absolutely no reason to get all defensive and start making wild and baseless accusations.

Quote:
There's a reason why doing things like that can be a positive experience for women. Part of it is an act of defiance against people telling them what they can or can not due based on some ancient pseudo-moral nonsense and sexist cultural norms.


I don't know...that seems pretty inane to me. It's the same old problem with non-conformism for it's own sake. Yeah, fine. You don't like 'society' or whatever telling you what to do. However, if that causes you to turn around and do something else you don't want to do purely for the sake of defiance then you're really still being controlled just as much.

Anyway though, I guess you're right that some people do see it as you do so maybe that is a partial explanation for why they choose to do it. Still from my perspective it seems sad that they feel they have to resort to that just to be defiant.


Actually there is quite a bit of "conformity" in Burlesque since many believe it to be a legitimate form of theatre arts. It has a lot of history and tradition.

And what these women do is not "stripping" per se. It is striptease, which has its own rules about how much is shown. Usually the performer uses a prop to obscure herself while she removes articles of clothing. It leaves a lot to the viewers imagination. Usually, the audience only gets the smallest peek of something at the end of the dance when the performer ducks behind the curtain. I'm told this takes a lot of practice to get it right. It is supposed to be funny and naughty.

Then there's the hoochie-coochie dance which usually uses these elaborate tassel thingies which manipulated in interesting theatrical ways. Those dances incorporate a lot of comedy in the routine, usually having "the pervert" show up on the stage to create chaos, sometimes chasing the dancer through the audience.

BTW, I'm not posting at this point to be argumentative. I just find Burlesque theatre kind of interesting. I was once involved in a stage production of Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream where the director incorporated Burlesque theatre into the faerie scenes of the play.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:09 am Reply with quote
tuxedocat:

That's interesting. Perhaps the photos from the article paint a misleading picture. I can see where one might enjoy being involved with it the way you describe it.

Ghidra999 wrote:
That's not a good argument. You could simply tag anything that doesn't meet your standards or norms as being "non-conformist for non-conformist sake." I mean they're not acting like you're supposed to be, so they're obviously just doing it to go against the grain right? It's circular reasoning to defend your own position. What this is really about is being free to do what they want. They want to do this. They aren't being dehumanized. They are obviously just having some fun.


Wait. What? You said that they were doing it to go against what they're told to do. That was your claim. And I quote:

"Part of it is an act of defiance against people telling them what they can or can not due"

If you now want to say that they do it because they genuinely want to because they actually enjoy it then fair enough. Obviously then they're not just being defiant for it's own sake. In fact, if that's the case, contrary to what you said originally, the issue of defiance is moot. It's just them doing something they enjoy.

Quote:
And you're not supposed to understand everything other people do or enjoy doing. I really don't understand why football is entertaining, but obviously its none of my business why others like to watch it.


Dude...Chill. The. Heck. Out. I was genuinely curious about the motivations behind this. I asked a simple question in an attempt to understand. I am not, nor was I ever, trying to oppose you in your little crusade here. I never said that you or they or anyone else has to justify it to me. I just said that it didn't make much sense to me. Now, thanks to someones attempt to explain it (instead of telling me it was none of my business Rolling Eyes) it does make a bit more sense to me. So I guess that's that.
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:22 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
tuxedocat:

That's interesting. Perhaps the photos from the article paint a misleading picture. I can see where one might enjoy being involved with it the way you describe it.

Ghidra999 wrote:
That's not a good argument. You could simply tag anything that doesn't meet your standards or norms as being "non-conformist for non-conformist sake." I mean they're not acting like you're supposed to be, so they're obviously just doing it to go against the grain right? It's circular reasoning to defend your own position. What this is really about is being free to do what they want. They want to do this. They aren't being dehumanized. They are obviously just having some fun.


Wait. What? You said that they were doing it to go against what they're told to do. That was your claim. And I quote:

"Part of it is an act of defiance against people telling them what they can or can not due"

If you now want to say that they do it because they genuinely want to because they actually enjoy it then fair enough. Obviously then they're not just being defiant for it's own sake. In fact, if that's the case, contrary to what you said originally, the issue of defiance is moot. It's just them doing something they enjoy.

Quote:
And you're not supposed to understand everything other people do or enjoy doing. I really don't understand why football is entertaining, but obviously its none of my business why others like to watch it.


Dude...Chill. The. Heck. Out. I was genuinely curious about the motivations behind this. I asked a simple question in an attempt to understand. I am not, nor was I ever, trying to oppose you in your little crusade here. I never said that you or they or anyone else has to justify it to me. I just said that it didn't make much sense to me. Now, thanks to someones attempt to explain it (instead of telling me it was none of my business Rolling Eyes) it does make a bit more sense to me. So I guess that's that.


I said part. Please learn to understand semantics a bit please. Everything doesn't have to be one or the other. That's very shallow reasoning. You may as well be making that charage against hippies or punk music or any other thing that is considered counter-culture.

Second point, not understanding why someone would want to dress up in a sexy costume or perform for others seems just a bit immature. I don't know. I just thought you weren't that infantile and were actually criticizing it. My bad.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Ghidra999 wrote:

Second point, not understanding why someone would want to dress up in a sexy costume or perform for others seems just a bit immature. I don't know. I just thought you weren't that infantile and were actually criticizing it. My bad.
Well Mr.(or Ms.) Pot, not understanding why someone would question, or be put off by such behavior, then coming on a forum to act like the uncaped crusader of the striptease defence force, putting baseless speculation and anarchistic misconceptions in their mouths, then verbally attacking them for it is just as immature and infantile. Please troll somewhere else. Rolling Eyes
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FictionsMosaic



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:52 pm Reply with quote
I would have to say that I am against this kind of thing. Not the burlesque, or if if it's someone cosplaying. It's not what the characters would have done. I feel that one should embrace the character and act the way they would have in the series. If it's a character that's from hentai, then something like this would be better in my eyes as it'd be more inclined for the characters to probably do.
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Ghidra999



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I would have to say that I am against this kind of thing. Not the burlesque, or if if it's someone cosplaying. It's not what the characters would have done. I feel that one should embrace the character and act the way they would have in the series. If it's a character that's from hentai, then something like this would be better in my eyes as it'd be more inclined for the characters to probably do.


Fanodm belongs to the fans. The characters aren't going to sue because they're being misreprsented. It's called make-believe.

Mohawk52 wrote:
Ghidra999 wrote:

Second point, not understanding why someone would want to dress up in a sexy costume or perform for others seems just a bit immature. I don't know. I just thought you weren't that infantile and were actually criticizing it. My bad.
Well Mr.(or Ms.) Pot, not understanding why someone would question, or be put off by such behavior, then coming on a forum to act like the uncaped crusader of the striptease defence force, putting baseless speculation and anarchistic misconceptions in their mouths, then verbally attacking them for it is just as immature and infantile. Please troll somewhere else. Rolling Eyes


You're not a mod. Don't tell me what to do. If you didn't want to be criticized for your idiotic comments don't immediatley come into a thread and accuse women you don't know of being on drugs and then suggest you feel sorry for their parents or other such borish tripe at the mere suggestion of thier sexuality. You want to talk about trolling, that was flame bait right there. But you can pretty much accuse anyone of being a troll as long as their speak their minds clerly enough, right?

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I don't make it a habbit to argue with more than likely hypocritical idiots that let cultural norms control their brains.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Evidently the tactic of trying not to get in a fight has failed.

Ghidra999 wrote:
Don't tell me what to do.


Quote:
Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I don't make it a habbit to argue with more than likely hypocritical idiots that let cultural norms control their brains.


Quote:
But you can pretty much accuse anyone of being a troll as long as their speak their minds clerly enough, right?


Yes, it seems quite cler indeed. You're not a troll at all. You just don't let your brain be controlled by cultural...conformist...puritan...stuff and other words you heard from your emo friends that you don't quite know how to spell. But like...people are always getting on your case just because you speak your mind. They're just like your parents. Better go lock yourself in your room, listen to Green Day, and write on your live journal.

Bye now.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:42 am Reply with quote
FictionsMosaic wrote:
I would have to say that I am against this kind of thing. Not the burlesque, or if if it's someone cosplaying. It's not what the characters would have done. I feel that one should embrace the character and act the way they would have in the series. If it's a character that's from hentai, then something like this would be better in my eyes as it'd be more inclined for the characters to probably do.


Rule /34/ begs to differ. And at least Rule /34/ pics sometimes are tons better than this garbage thats been posted.
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FictionsMosaic



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:53 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
And at least Rule /34/ pics sometimes are tons better than this garbage thats been posted.


Thanks for giving the link. If it wasn't there, I would have been a little confused as it's the first time I've heard of the phrase. I am not one who spends a lot of time socializing with others either in person or online, so a lot of different terms and phrases tend to escape me.

Ghidra999 wrote:
Fanodm belongs to the fans. The characters aren't going to sue because they're being misreprsented. It's called make-believe.


I see no problem with fandom belongs to the fans, everything in the world has some sort of audience and the source will always be taken to some different level by various groups of people. So I've no real problems with the physical acts of things like this. To me, a character means more to me than the people I come across either as some sort of happenstance encounter with a stranger, or someone online. I spend 80% of my time awake writing and reading, and a lot of that time I have my characters to keep me company as well as get around a few ideas. Make believe they may be, but a character can definitely be quite helpful under different circumstances and context.

Getting back to the topic itself, I must say, I was rather surprised by the Rei Ayanami set of images.
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