Forum - View topicAttraction between cousins in anime
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Brendan Behan
Posts: 19 |
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What's the deal with this? I've watched a couple of anime series where there is love story between two cousins. One exampe of this is Yuka - Kohta in Elfen Lied. Another is Yuichi - Nayuki in Kanon. Maybe the subs I've been reading have been shifty or I'm missing something, but these relationships or crushes don't seem to be treated as taboo like they are/would be in most Western cultures. Am I right in assuming that it's just a (pretty big) difference in culture? Hopefully that's not an insulting assumption to make... Can anyone shed some more light on this?
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Luxa
 Posts: 65 Location: Budapest/Érd, Hungary |
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I think you are right in assuming cultural differences. I am far from an expert on Japanese culture, but I read that inter-cousin marriage is uncommon but accepted.
Also it was quite accepted in Europe, just take a look at the family tree of the Habsburgs. (On the other hand, they did have some resulting genetical defects.) And I think it is still legal in some countries if both parties are adult. The extreme example is Sweden where even half-sibling intermarriage is allowed with a special grant. So, can anyone tell when and why it became the cultural taboo it is? (edit: composition) |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Most of the world sees no problem in relationships between cousins. It is mostly a western taboo, so it has little to do with anime itself. Even as soon as the Victorian Period, marriage between cousins was still perfectly acceptable.
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6902 Location: Kazune City |
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As Nerima Daikon Brothers pointed out, repeatedly, 1st cousin marriage is legal in Japan. If we go by the legal definition of incest (relations between people for whom marriage is illegal because of family ties), then cousin attraction isn't incest, technically speaking. Like a lot of things, it's probably more common in anime than in real life. Some other examples I can think of are:
Touma and Urara in Sakura Diaries Jun'ichi and Sakura in Da Capo Kokin and Hakufu in Ikki-Tousen Several pairs in Fruits Basket Yuuji and Saki in Snow Sakura (ero-game) Ryuushi and Kozue in Mahoraba Hideki/Mako/Ichiro love triangle in Nerima Daikon Brothers Takeru and Mari in This Ugly yet Beautiful World Hiroki and Elis in Canvas 2 (note: these are not technically spoilers -- pairs are on this list only because some sort of attraction exists between them, and they do not necessarily wind up together within the series) |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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Hmm...this is actually a plot point in Nerima Daikon Brothers (although considering it's Nerima Daikon Brothers I'm using the term "plot point" loosely). One of the characters, Hideki, is in love with his cousin Mako, and wants to marry her. But Mako brushes him off by telling him they can't because "the Japanese constitution doesn't allow it"--even though apparently that used to be the case but it was changed years ago, and everyone but Hideki knows it. (In fact, to top it off, Mako likes Hideki's brother...which makes it a love triangle between cousins.)
It's all played for laughs in the show, being the crazy comedy it is. But it does really highlight the Japanese views of (what the show calls) "cousin love". It seems like it's seen as being a little weird, but...well, it's not illegal. (Although it possibly was in the past...? I'm honestly not sure about that part.) |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Children produced by cousins (particularly first cousins) have a significantly higher chance of being born with genetic disorders. See this report on cousin marriages amongst Pakistani immigrants to Britain for example.
Incest of any type (including father-daughter, mother-son and brother-sister) hasn't been illegal in Japan since 1881 provided both parties are over the age of consent (source) so a legal definition of incest doesn't work in this case. A dictionary definition ("Sexual commerce of near kindred" - i.e. sex between blood relations) is probably more helpful. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=214871#214871 animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=221260#221260
I'd be glad if you could give us your reasonings. |
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Brendan Behan
Posts: 19 |
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Interesting. It definitely is a funny topic, not all incest, but relations between cousins. It's not something that peaks my interest but it is cool to look at how different cultures approach it. I remember walking to the store one summer day with my blood brother when we were about 13 year old. We were shootin' the shit and the conversation came around to erotic stories that you can find on the internet. As it stands we southerners are not very technical people and we were still fooling around with 56k and those stupid stories because we didn't know we were sitting on a goldmine of... visual material, while the rest of the world was enjoying DSL and a plethora of videos. Anyways, I'm just rambling, but that day when he brought it up he mentioned how a lot of stories had weird things like -- and he sorta peeked over like he was testing the water -- relations between cousins. haha I still give him shit about that because it's too typical - a common southern stereotype and one of the many blackeyes in our peoples' history. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well dormcat, I don't know why you would ask such a question. Have you honestly not heard all the arguments (and controversy) about cousin-marriage, or are you playing the role of Encyclopaedist (and want actual documentation to be submitted to the thread for those who don't know, even though you already do)? It doesn't matter; your reasons are your own. But I will answer your call. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/041001.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/11/genetics.medicalresearch http://www.cousincouples.com/info/facts.shtml To summarise, if the genetic stock is excellent, then marriage between cousins is a good idea to keep the linage strong. If the genetic stock is bad, or contains many recessive genes for various defects, then it most certainly is a questionable idea. Overall, the chances of genetic defects is twice that of the general population, but still only 4-6 percent. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Another example is Tomokazu, Nanase, and her younger sister Kuyuo from Yumeria, which was even more odd for me considering Nanase was the girl who raised him as a child and as a result is also kind of a mother figure to him. However, that doesn't stop her from flirting with him openly, but then again she's not the brightest bulb on the tree either.
 
As for me I find it gross since I've got femal cousins but offen it's just for laughs or played convincingly enough that I think it would work for them as a couple at which point I wouldn't care. Besides, I've sat through Koi Kaze which was a brother/sister attraction and ended up giving that one a masterpiece for how good that was. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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You don't have much idea about my academic background, do you?  
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Gingy
Posts: 57 |
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Rather then a cultural difference, it could also be a religious difference as well. Reasoning for this is because the ONLY possible as well as viable argument against inest is because of increased chance of genetic defects of the resulting offspring. BUT incest was taboo long before biologists were able to find out about that. Meaning some other reason other then the genetic problem existed long ago that made incest taboo in the West. So far I'm unable to find any other reason why incest is considered taboo to start with except for one, apparently some religions prohibit incest while others do not. They dont have any reason for it, its just written in their holy books, and seeing how overly conservative people in the West are even today, that could explain why incest is still taboo, and even against the law. In the end its all a religion thing. To be honest, the chances of a genetic defect is really quite small, it is when incest happens among children of already incestuous generations that any noticeable problem occurs. And if there IS genetic problems faced by the offspring...who cares? If the parents do not care about the genetic problems, why should we, who have no right in their private matters butt in when we are not wanted? Cant we just let them be?
Also if anybody can provide explanations or reasons why Incest is considered taboo BEFORE we knew about genetic birth defects involved in incest, feel free enlighten me...I'd actually like to know. As for why incest is so common in anime. Well, anime, and all cartoon in particular lets the impossible happen, just draw it. Therefore, creators could spice up their anime by adding something exotic which will draw people in. Commercial reasons I guess, it's hot, just look at Ai Shimai(Immoral Sisters). Oh yeah, sometimes incest is also a good way to cause moral dilemmas for certain protagonists in anime too, for example Onegai twins. |
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retty
 Posts: 118 Location: Cheshire, UK |
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You're right that religion is involved, but I think quite apart from that it's because people feel that it's wrong. Even if there were no laws against it, I'd still think it was wrong and be creeped out by it. In the Middle Ages, people didn't even like you to marry your cousin or even second cousin, so you're family would usually look to distant relatives to find you a suitable partner. I wouldn't say marrying your cousin is 'taboo' in the west, at least not in the UK since there's no law against it and people do do it, but it is frowned upon. One of my friends moved in with her aunt when she was 16 and started to fancy her cousin. They had a relationship in secret and she lost her virginity to him (her telling me all this used to creep me out) but when her aunt found out she kicked her out of the house. I think that's the main problem with these relationships, is what it does to the family. You'll creep them out and they'd probably not want to know you any more. |
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Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
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Well, not necessarily creep them out depending on exactly how close the relationship is, but genetics aside it's just not a good idea. Remember, if you break up with/divorce your cousin you can't just wish them well and never see them again. What if it's a bad breakup? If one or both of you are really hurt will it ruin the sibling relationship between your parents? Are your grandparents now in a situation where they're forced to chose who they're going to spend time with, including major holidays? It just opens up a whole can of worms, especially if you're talking second cousins or closer. Last edited by Kelly on Wed May 21, 2008 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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I thought the BBC link I provided did so. I'd be happy to provide more evidence but it seems pointless now that dtm42 has beaten me to it. Besides, this isn't exactly controversial science - you could get it out of any book on dog breeding... It should also be noted that while a first generation match between cousins significantly increases the chances of genetic disorders, it is still statistically unlikely to result in a genetically abnormal child. However, the risks are further increased with each successive generation of cousin-cousin relationships within the same extended family. The only circumstances in which no increased risk would present itself would be if nobody in the family had any recessive genes whatsoever (and that's a rare set of circumstances).
Cousin-cousin has become increasingly taboo in the West in modern times so it can hardly be a religious taboo given that religion has a far weaker grip on the modern West than on, say, Medieval Christendom. I suspect it has considerably more to do with urbanisation and increased population mobility. The isolated communities in which marriage options were limited are largely a thing of the past in the West, as are social requirements to strengthen familial or tribal links through arranged marriages. Thus, much of the cousin-cousin marriage taboo results (rightly or wrongly) from the perception that it is a practice related to backwards or uncivilised country folk. Hence the popular American stereotype of the inbred hillbilly from the southern states and the corresponding English stereotype of the inbred bumpkin from rural East Anglia. It's a similar situation in other Western countries - incestuous marriages are always associated in the modern public consciousness with remote rural populations. And brother-sister / parent-child incest is taboo pretty much everywhere (including Japan) so that has nothing to do with East-West culture differences or religious intolerance. You could count the exceptions on the fingers of one hand and, in fact, the only one I can think of off the top of my head, without reaching for the anthropology books, is brother-sister marriage within the Ancient Egyptian royal family (because if you believe you have the blood of the gods in your veins, why would you want to dilute it by breeding with mere mortals?). |
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