Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I don't think the excuse of temporary insanity would work in his case.  This is why I asked how that council worked. With Kakeru spoiler[falling asleep all the time], with Nao being serious all the time, Kimi saying all the right things and Machi spoiler[destroying rooms if she feels that there's too much order.  ] And then, on top of everything else there goes Yuki spoiler[a president that has little confidence in what he is doing sometimes. ] Again it is a wonder that the council worked properly, though I don't think that Takaya-san has shown an action that they performed together as a grup, other than their meetings.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I would have never thought of it that way, Richard. Kakeru spoiler[has always been thoughtful of his sister, even up to the point of trying to hook her up and bring her happiness. Although like we see he'll at times go overboard, but on purpose, like the handing Machi's bra to Yuki]
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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And then he doesn't seem to understand why Machi just goes around and spoiler[punches him. ] Sometimes I think that he is just looking for it. However I can picture even a bigger disaster for poor Machi: one in which Kimi might get envolved as "Cupid's help". Now those would have been some scenes worth to remember.
By the way, here it is already going on Sunday. Dear murph, you're preparing something big if you're late with the new discussion for the week to come, aren't you? 
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Oh, I don't know if I'd say that. Some family things came up and I couldn't post the next topic on time. This week we're moving to Shigure and Akito, the spoiler[couple who passionately love and violently hate each other at the same time. ] My apologies for the short introduction, but I can't think of a better way to bring up these two characters. I'm taking a vacation this week, so hopefully I'll be around a bit more to add more when the discussion gets going. -Murph |
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suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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That right there, is why Shigure(maybe later spoilers)spoiler[always refers to himself as the most cursed of them all. he loves "god". and not only that, he is willing to do anything, and to use anbody, to achieve his goal. to break the curse and be with Akito]
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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The relationship was mysterious from the beginning, because it wasn't clear to me on what the standing was between Akito and Shigure. And of all the things when in the earlier volumes spoiler[they seemed to be getting a little too comfortable with each other, it really wouldn't make sense when since Akito was perceived as a male. So, it made a WHOLE LOT of sense when the truth.]
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I told you, murph, that you were preparing something good!
About Akito and Shigure there are many things to be said.
Ok, I like this topic a lot therefore don't mind if I'll expand a little bit. I still mantain the opinion that Shigure is one of the best created characters in the manga and that his complexity is far from what I thought at the beginning. At the beginning of the manga we get to see this guy that makes a lot of jokes, who's very comfortable in who he is and just loves the fact that Tohru as moved in with them. I think that in fact we were little prepared to see the interesting development of this character. If I remember correctly, there was a scene when spoiler[he, Hatori, Ayame and Kureno were already born and Ren was pregnant and she didn't know yet. Still they felt that something interesting and totally new for their lives was about to come to this life and therefore they went to Ren and wept. ] I felt at the time that Shigure and all the others for that matter spoiler[felt that the god of the zodiac was about to be born and as it was mentioned a lot later in the manga, it was the first time that no animal from the zodiac was missing and that something was about to break. ] I think that the relationship between Shigure and Akito is defiently a spoiler[love/hate type of relationship. Akito by far has done a stupid thing when sleeping with Kureno and I think that this is what hit really big their relationship because ] Shigure is anything but forgiving. I just didn't think that his retaliation would be so cruel as spoiler[ for him to sleep with Rin. That I wouldn't have seen it coming. The fact that he slept with Ren was for Shigure on the one hand a way to proove to Akito that she is anything but a god for him and on the other hand to show her that he can hurt her just as big as she has done with him. ] I believe that it was later in the manga that both remembered about the episode when Akito spoiler[told him to just move from the house and Shigure did that. I think she told him something like you were too eager to leave At that point it was the best thing to do for Shigure because otherwise nothing better would have come out between him and Akito. ] It is interesting to see the interaction between the two of them at moments of great tension. spoiler[ It is as if it is a battle of wills and torture: who can create the greatest damage and the greatest pain? Strangely enough I would say Shigure, but that's just me. Besides Akito is denying always that she is a woman but at the same time she is all too eager to use this "advantage" when with Shigure. ]
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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The relationship between Akito and Shigure is spoiler[a love/hate. ]
I would have to say that it is the most twisted relationship in the entire series. I have to agree with Aya that Shigurespoiler[has caused the most pain. But he's only done it because Akito has hurt him very badly. There is a very, very dark side to Shigure that the younger members are not permitted to see. Rin knows some of it, but I don't think that even she realizes the depth of Shigure's darkness.] |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I think that besides Akito spoiler[who knows best what Shigure is capable of doing, is Hatori. Many times, his best friend (I still wonder
 ) warns him that if he has come to cause trouble then he better should leave because Akito always feels poorly after Shigure leaves. Which says a lot about how much damage Shigure can cause. I think that in a way he is making Akito pay again and again for her stupid mistake. I see him as a very possessive guy who just wants to finish with the curse once and for all. ]
From the younger ones, the one who may be most conscious that Shigure is darker than at a first glance besides (as Lydia well said ) spoiler[Rin, may be also Tohru, when Shigure just went on and told her how the zodiacs trully feel about themselves and about Kyo as well. I think that at that moment and in that particular scene we are capable to see a self-sufficient side of Shigure, something like he knows best and just itching to tell all that to Tohru. Maybe it was also a scene when Shigure was just plain tired to pretend as many times he does. ] |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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we'eve always been able to catch glimpses of Shigure's spoiler[incredibly manipulative ways, even as far back as volume 1 (i think). he is the instigator of all that has happened (mostly) ]
i find his conversation with Hatori spoiler[about how "nice" he should be to Akito to be the best insight to Shigure. He does not want to be Akito's "father". in other words, if he was blindly nice to her, she would not feel the way he wants her to, and he will not stand for that. so he did become slightly cruel, to destroy that bridge and to creat a new one. but his primary goal is the ending of the curse. he wants to love Akito not as God, but as Akito. it is clear that Akito does indeed love Shigure as well, but she is unwilling to let go of the "bonds". when he began to grow distant, she feared that he was simply abondoning her, which is what she fears the most. ] |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Had it not been for Shigure and Akito
I couldn't have been able to stomach Tohru and rest of characters that annoyed me. Before the chapter 101 I was at times on the verge of dropping FB after this chapter I make the decision to read it no matter how much Tohru annoys me. They are one of the most interesting couple I have ever seen, their twisted, dark relationship is incredibly entertaining to me.
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Do you think that Shigure has also felt that spoiler[he might be loving Akito just because she was the God of the zodiac? Did Shigure had some doubts about the sincerity of his love? Sometimes I think it must have been difficult to separate these feelings from one another, because let's remember the older zodiacs have felt Akito even before Rin did. And besides between the two of them there's a huge lust. They crave for one another and yet they fail to see far beyond their fears (I wonder if Shigure has any
- perhaps that the curse might no break after all and thus losing Akito forever). While Akito is afraid because she feels that breaking the bonds would mean leaving her utterly alone, Shigure wants to break the bonds so he can be free and finally be able to love Akito as a simple woman. ]
But there's another issue here: while Akito may be no longer spoiler[ the god after the breaking of the curse, she remains the head of the Souhma family, if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how Shigure will cope with this. Perhaps because he already has Akito as a woman he is not interested in her being the head of the family. ] But he just doesn't seem the type to sit and watch. |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I think spoiler[he started helping Akito as there was a vacancy when Kureno had left.] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Let me expand as well on the Shigure/Akito relationship. We all know for a fact that it's spoiler[love/hate]. It's already been mentioned four times now
However this relationship has really found ways to bring out the worst of these two, which is something that I think really turned the tide for Shigure as far as character development. For the longest time he spoiler[had been acting like a lazy bum and perverted novelist, ]but with this relationship being brought out into the open we were able to see what he really was like.
On the Akito side, spoiler[she can't comprehend why he is treating her like this, which she is obviously oblivious to the fact that she might have hurt him first. Shigure is leaving all the clues that tell her to get rid of Kureno, yet she is still in a state of mind that all of the Zodiac must remain with her. She knows that the curse is breaking yet she doesn't want to believe it. And thus she has had to endure this ridicule and treatment from Shigure and her mother, Ren. Funny though how Shigure only slept with Ren because she reminded him of how Akito really should look as a woman. Shigure can do all of the evil things in this story yet he doesn't really get any repitition for it.] |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Or he is doing all the spoiler[bad things without trully feeling bad about them. I think that even now Shigure doesn't regret that he has slept with Ren. We never get to see Akito regretting as well that she has slept with Kureno. It just seems that somehow they had done all these things, they know that they are bad and yet that's about it. Nothing remotly similar to remorce ever appears to any of them. ] And even more, Shigure is the shrewdest character between the two of them. Yes, he says that spoiler[he loves Akito very much and he wants to be more of a lover than a parental figure to her. He has slept with Ren, let's say for the sake of it: for the woman that Akito might have been, for Akito's mistake and for many other reasons that remain only to Shigure as the mysterious character that he is. And yet even him doesn't know what to do sometimes. In spite of the fact that Akito is at the moment with Kureno (let's say because the curse has been broken) Shigure occasionally falls into temptation and sleeps with Akito. ] Honestly that at that point I really didn't know which was the worse: him or Kureno? Or Akito for just not having enough will to manage the both of them.
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