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freebird1994
Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 83
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 12:03 pm
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Imagine having a disease and then being told there's someone who can cure you. But then you see that person is mayuri. Do you take the cure or die lol? I wonder what his morality alignment? I can see people saying he's one of the evils(either lawful or neutral) but honestly I think he's more chaotic neutral. What do you guys think?
I actually don't have an issue with mayuris "I have the counter to whatever situation" and I think its just due to the presentation. Mayuri almost NEVER shows up until a while after any enemy has shown off their ability. And since we know he's no stranger to invasive surveillance that would make the NSA jealous, he can easily analyze and create a counter to it. At least, I think its better that Kisukes power of "counter everything" cause at least we know how mayuri could know how any opponents power works and he has access to a big laboratory to work on it. Also the little bit where Cirucci was going to try and splatter her blood on mayuri was very funny.
So yeah, these episode very much feel like setup episodes. We're kinda just getting readu for future battles. Which I understand for a lot of people is going to feel like a slog but I'm fine with it if it just means when we do get to big battles they are well animated and directed.
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malvarez1
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1973
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:41 am
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It’s funny how this was arguably one of the better animated episodes of cour 2.
Even though it was short, I liked seeing the Byakuya fight since it was off-screened in the manga.
Be grateful that Pepe only had a few minutes of screen time in this version.
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smurky turkey
Joined: 30 Jan 2022
Posts: 2415
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:19 am
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So, am I crazy for thinking that the zombie captains fought better than their alive versions? Hitsu felt more powerful as a zombie with fast attacks and using his ice in creative ways as opposed to just him screaming bankai and rushing in trying to make a slash and going down soon after.
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Hal14
Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 699
Location: Heart of africa
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:46 am
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smurky turkey wrote: | So, am I crazy for thinking that the zombie captains fought better than their alive versions? Hitsu felt more powerful as a zombie with fast attacks and using his ice in creative ways as opposed to just him screaming bankai and rushing in trying to make a slash and going down soon after. |
The punchy one managed to actually beat a sternritter this time, good for him. At least as zombies they probably won't exposit their abilities. Also rangoku is absent, again, after like ten seconds of screen time as a zombie.
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AksaraKishou
Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1414
Location: End of the World
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 12:45 pm
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Wonder what the reviewer is gonna think when they reveal That not only is Urahara a Special War Power for the Quincy because of his "Means". Like, It's literally "Plot armour" in-universe.
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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 12964
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:36 pm
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It's funny how Yumichika is finally willing to use his Zanpakuto's true name but he and Ikkaku are still nothing more than jobbers at this point. Granted they're fighting Hitsugaya so that's kind of a given.
Mayuri loves his mind-breaking, violating, methods. He's probably been itching to experiment on his fellow Captains for a while now.
Giselle was not prepared for Mayuri to be even more of a psycho than she is.
Zombie Rangiku hurt the soul. Though hey, Kensei actually won a fight!
Nice to see them actually animate Byakuya's fight and give Robert more to do (we still don't know his Schrift). I see they also had Candice's defeated pose be exactly what you would expect it to be.
Shuhei really just can't win, huh? Even got beat up by his Captain again.
It's funny how many times Byakuya fights dark-skinned opponents talking about love or someone trying to brainwash him. And his Zanpakuto.
Pepe was...Pepe. Also did they straight up just give him Shinji's OST? The madlads.
Liltotto asking where Pepe was and then ends up regretting that...until she ate him. Felt like Aoi Yuki taking out the frustration of Mami fans for how little she's been in the current season of Rent-a-Girlfriend.
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Minos_Kurumada
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1173
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:06 pm
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I love how Mayuri has a counter measure for counter mesures... except when he fought Ishida, the guy who belong to the clan he killed and studied docents of subjects and should be specially knowledgeable of, specially since Ichida was a novice.
One of the worsts instantizes of plot armor I have seen.
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freebird1994
Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 83
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:40 pm
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Quote: | This time it turns out he laced all his Arrancar servants' blood with a special drug that traps people in Gold Experience Requiem's power. Why did he think to do that? Because he's just that smart. |
But the series has already established that's something he does? He does that to nemu like when he beat Gratz(Espada #8) cause grantz got drugged when he used nemus body to reborn himself. Why is it seen as "plot convenient" here when it's an established part of his character? If the problem is the drug itself seems op(and a jojo reference), i can at least understand that perspective.
Quote: | I love how Mayuri has a counter measure for counter measures... except when he fought Ishida, the guy who belong to the clan he killed and studied docents of subjects and should be specially knowledgeable of, specially since Ichida was a novice. |
I partly addressed this in my earlier post but he explicitly did not know of Ishida's Letze Stil(the full power mode). Throughout their fight, Mayuri holds a clear advantage cause he's studied a lot about quincies in general and believed he knew everything he needed to, so much so that he wasn't even going to dissect Uryu cause he thought he knew everything. But clearly he didn't know everything, and that gave Uryu the advantage and the win.
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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 2021
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:41 pm
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What's with Kubo and offensive stereotypes? The second the gay camp Arrancar saw Hitsugaya, he said "You are a cute boy" and got sliced.
It's been like this since the first arc where Kubo wrote a redhaired lesbian obsessed with sex so much that it seems to have inspired that horrible character from Komisan.
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BluesPro
Joined: 09 May 2023
Posts: 99
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:14 pm
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tintor2 wrote: | What's with Kubo and offensive stereotypes? The second the gay camp Arrancar saw Hitsugaya, he said "You are a cute boy" and got sliced.
It's been like this since the first arc where Kubo wrote a redhaired lesbian obsessed with sex so much that it seems to have inspired that horrible character from Komisan. |
What is it with people looking for reasons to be offended and making a mountain out of nothing lines? Just nothing else going on to spend your time on?
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Minos_Kurumada
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1173
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:15 pm
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freebird1994 wrote: |
Quote: | This time it turns out he laced all his Arrancar servants' blood with a special drug that traps people in Gold Experience Requiem's power. Why did he think to do that? Because he's just that smart. |
But the series has already established that's something he does? He does that to nemu like when he beat Gratz(Espada #8) cause grantz got drugged when he used nemus body to reborn himself. Why is it seen as "plot convenient" here when it's an established part of his character? If the problem is the drug itself seems op(and a jojo reference), i can at least understand that perspective.
Quote: | I love how Mayuri has a counter measure for counter measures... except when he fought Ishida, the guy who belong to the clan he killed and studied docents of subjects and should be specially knowledgeable of, specially since Ichida was a novice. |
I partly addressed this in my earlier post but he explicitly did not know of Ishida's Letze Stil(the full power mode). Throughout their fight, Mayuri holds a clear advantage cause he's studied a lot about quincies in general and believed he knew everything he needed to, so much so that he wasn't even going to dissect Uryu cause he thought he knew everything. But clearly he didn't know everything, and that gave Uryu the advantage and the win. |
So, he has counter measures of stuff he has no means to know but doesn't form stuff he should know...
In another words: Ishida is the ONLY quincy Mayuri ever found with this ability, even though he is a novice and it's the ONLY ability he has no counter mesure against.
And this ability being a power up... Mayuri had counter against an ability that manipulates love but not against a buff skill.
Which its my original complain.
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freebird1994
Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 83
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:26 pm
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Minos_Kurumada wrote: |
So, he has counter measures of stuff he has no means to know but doesn't form stuff he should know...
In another words: Ishida is the ONLY quincy Mayuri ever found with this ability, even though he is a novice and it's the ONLY ability he has no counter mesure against.
And this ability being a power up... Mayuri had counter against an ability that manipulates love but not against a buff skill.
Which its my original complain. |
What? Just cause someone should know something doesn't mean they automatically do. And just because YOU think he should have known this doesn't mean they do. And note i said he learned everything he needed too but lets be honest, the correct word there should have been "wanted too learn". He's shown before that if something doesn't interest him, he tends to not care about and won't bother with it. It's kind of the typical trait of a narrasistic megalomaniac. Also you are aware that Letze Stil when used will rob a quincy of all their abilities right? It's not exactly a technique one throws around whenever.(It's not like any of the quincies have thrown it around here.) So its not Ishida is the only one with this ability, it's more he's the only one who faced mayuri and chose use it and accept the consequences.
And what's with the complaint that "he lost to just a power buff"? I mean.....yes? This episode explicitly laid out that mayuri is not a great fighter. His fights are NEVER about winning in a contest of power, it all technical. Posion, drugging, manipulation, counter measures, not raw power. He is literally the opposite of kenpachi in combat ability. So yes, he lost to Ishida cause when Ishida used Letze Stil, Mayuri panicked and tried to challenge him in raw power, a clearly lost battle cause his bankai isn't that physically dangerous.
As for the love ability thing, i mean it didn't work on byakuya, so why would it work on a couple of zombies with basically hollowed out consciousness.
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Minos_Kurumada
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1173
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:39 pm
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freebird1994 wrote: |
Minos_Kurumada wrote: |
So, he has counter measures of stuff he has no means to know but doesn't form stuff he should know...
In another words: Ishida is the ONLY quincy Mayuri ever found with this ability, even though he is a novice and it's the ONLY ability he has no counter mesure against.
And this ability being a power up... Mayuri had counter against an ability that manipulates love but not against a buff skill.
Which its my original complain. |
What? Just cause someone should know something doesn't mean they automatically do. And just because YOU think he should have known this doesn't mean they do. And note i said he learned everything he needed too but lets be honest, the correct word there should have been "wanted too learn". He's shown before that if something doesn't interest him, he tends to not care about and won't bother with it. It's kind of the typical trait of a narrasistic megalomaniac. Also you are aware that Letze Stil when used will rob a quincy of all their abilities right? It's not exactly a technique one throws around whenever.(It's not like any of the quincies have thrown it around here.) So its not Ishida is the only one with this ability, it's more he's the only one who faced mayuri and chose use it and accept the consequences.
And what's with the complaint that "he lost to just a power buff"? I mean.....yes? This episode explicitly laid out that mayuri is not a great fighter. His fights are NEVER about winning in a contest of power, it all technical. Posion, drugging, manipulation, counter measures, not raw power. He is literally the opposite of kenpachi in combat ability. So yes, he lost to Ishida cause when Ishida used Letze Stil, Mayuri panicked and tried to challenge him in raw power, a clearly lost battle cause his bankai isn't that physically dangerous.
As for the love ability thing, i mean it didn't work on byakuya, so why would it work on a couple of zombies with basically hollowed out consciousness. |
Sorry, everything you are saying has no parallelism with the series.
Mayuri is a Batman type character that has counter measure of counter measures, the idea of him not having a counter mesure simply is not believable and much less if its against a power buff, the lamest more obvious thing to have a counter measure against.
Worst of all, you are argin that he is weak against buffs, yet he apparently has no counter mesure against them, thus, your argument is that Mayuri has a plan for everything except his weak point and that's perfectly fine and believable.
Now, if you wanna make a proper argument it would be like this:
"Oh, what you are saying its truth, but, it's also believable that somebody like Mayuri learned from his mistakes, seeing how Ichida almost defeated him for him not knowing something, his over preparation and comboluded plans come from him evolving from this humiliation".
It makes total sense for this character development to exist: Mayuri doesn't train harder like meat heads like Ichigo, he plans harder and becomes more powerful like that, but, this character development plot point doesn't exist, because this is Bleach not HXH.
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freebird1994
Joined: 12 Dec 2022
Posts: 83
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:19 pm
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Minos_Kurumada wrote: |
Sorry, everything you are saying has no parallelism with the series.
Mayuri is a Batman type character that has counter measure of counter measures, the idea of him not having a counter measure simply is not believable and much less if its against a power buff, the lamest more obvious thing to have a counter measure against. |
>says that what i said has no parallelism with the series
>immediately tries to draw parallels of mayuri and batman because "lol god tier with prep meme" despite the fact that mayuri has more in parrallell with goddamn joker than bats.
Seriously, what? Are you complaining that mayuri SHOULD have a counter to everything imaginable? First off: Kisuke is the one that meme applies too. He has LOADS more instances of having the perfect plan for any situation. He is literally one of the special threats for the quincies because of this.. Second: Did you forget how i said that mayuri develops countermeasures AFTER an ability is revealed? And the series has already shown that he is very good at working quickly. When he went to fight Espada #8, he knew of szayelaporros ability specifically he saw it work. AND THEN he developed the counter for it. Now if you want to complain that he's able to develop counter measures too quickly after the ability is revealed, then I can at least understand that complaint even if it's shown to be moot. But do not put him on a meme level where the joke is that the character is supposed to have a counter, even to things they couldn't know about.
Quote: | Worst of all, you are argin that he is weak against buffs, yet he apparently has no counter mesure against them, thus, your argument is that Mayuri has a plan for everything except his weak point and that's perfectly fine and believable. |
Wow nice way to take it out of context. Here, let me give an analogy:
Mayuri fights someone who uses fire as an ability. Nothing too crazy here, just standerd fire attacks you would see from characters like ace(one piece) or zuko(avatar). After defeating and disecting this character, mayuri now has the means to counter such fire based attacks against similar opponents via fireproof suits.
Now imagine Mayuri later fights another fire user. This fire users ability seems no different so the firesuit does it's job. But then, the fire user busts out their final attack and their fire gets a MASSIVE boost. We are talking Yammamoto level "Hot-as-the-sun" fire. Obviously the suit does not last against this fire because why would it, mayuri made it to counter the fire he experienced, not something exponentially more powerful. He made a countermeasure to what he experienced and examined, but he NEVER saw the ability at this level and thus any countermeasure he might have prepared beforehand fails due to the raw power of the ability.
That was his fight with Ishida. He has experience with quincies. He never encountered one remotely that strong.
Quote: | Now, if you wanna make a proper argument it would be like this:
"Oh, what you are saying its truth, but, it's also believable that somebody like Mayuri learned from his mistakes, seeing how Ichida almost defeated him for him not knowing something, his over preparation and comboluded plans come from him evolving from this humiliation".
It makes total sense for this character development to exist: Mayuri doesn't train harder like meat heads like Ichigo, he plans harder and becomes more powerful like that, but, this character development plot point doesn't exist, because this is Bleach not HXH. |
Ok honestly i'm starting to question if you have watched or read this series outside this season. "learned from his mistakes" "humiliation" what you are describing here are the feelings a person of humble stature might experience. MAYURI IS NOT HUMBLE. He is a goddamn narsassist. An egomaniac. Someone who treats everyone and everything around him as a test subject and nothing more. He is not someone who will self reflect, cause self reflection are for those with weak, petty feelings. Hell the next time he encountered Uryu, there was no hostility in him. Cause that's pointless(to him). He just ignored Uryu's ranting and ravings.
In his fight with uryu, he is bored throughout the entire first part. He explicitly says "However, I'm sorry, but I've already finished studying your kind. I have absolutely no interest in you.". He's able to dodge and keep up cause he's seen it all before. HOWEVER, he does get interested when he sees Ishida do something no other quincy he studied do before. In fact(and i just went back to get the exacts of it) when Uryu does the technique Ranso Tengai, he explicitly says not a single one of the 2,661 quincies he's experimented on could do it.
Then when Uryu unleashes Letze Stil, he is explicitly shocked. He's "never seen such power from a quincy before". And as such he is overwhelmed because again, he's NOT A FIGHTER. So i guess in another way he is actually similar to batman. In that when he doesn't have a plan/his plans go to shit, he's actually really weak relative to whoever he's fighting.
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Hal14
Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 699
Location: Heart of africa
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:15 am
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It is really as simple as "Ishida is a a main character". That's it. Mayuri can pull out of his ass whatever is necessary to beat mooks, but a main/major character will have a trump card to beat these types of characters (Something similar happens to Ishida later in this war)
I know it's lame to say "This character wins because the author wants them to" but the problem with fighters like Mayuri is that the hand of the author is a bit more visible when they fight. If a character is so prepared that they have 12 different flavours of shark repellent in their utility belt, the things they don't prepare for (and thus lose to) feel more... heavy-handed (?) on the authors part.
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