Forum - View topicNEWS: New Rurouni Kenshin TV Anime Reveals Cast, Staff, 2023 Premiere on Noitamina
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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His choice to support is just as valid as your choice not to. In the eyes of the law he paid his debt to society. I don't know what more you want the guy to do other than just stop existing. |
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MagicPolly
 Posts: 1617 |
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Distain for someone for owning child porn is not a cultural difference, I really don't understand the point you're trying to make |
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NebulousNeon
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Because support equals money for him, and we know what he does with his money. People choosing to support him need to know that they're funneling money to someone who is known to spend it on content that exploits children. Just because he made your favorite manga or anime doesn't mean you should overlook a crime this serious. |
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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That's not my point at all, but sure. Not excusing or saying you shouldn't disdain the man. Just saying to examine the facts before making a judgement. If you want to get to the nitty gritty, the porn he owned was legally obtained when he bought it. Does that make it any less gross? No, but it also shows that it was culturally acceptable when he bought it so that makes things muddier. Make your own call but you can't tell me with a straight face that things in America and Japan are 1:1 when it comes to sex and porn.
Cool, where is your evidence that he still spends his money on content that exploits children? Has he been convicted again? If not, then all you're doing is assuming the worst. Last edited by ShinuZERO on Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 488 |
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Okay, let me stop you right here. I've been avoiding the urge to log in and post this entire time, but you've reached that breaking point for me. You don't actually know when Watsuki purchased that child pornography. You know that it was legal in the country at one point and that he was caught, three years after it was deemed illegal, with it in his possession. After the grace period in which anyone owning child pornography could turn it in to the police with no consequences. He still kept it. Worse, he was found with it because of payment receipts, which means he bought it *after* it became illegal to own. Second, the legality of the content is never actually in question. If the only thing keeping you from having sex with literal children (Watsuki stated that his preference was elementary school girls) is the LEGALITY OF IT? You need to be removed from society, entered into therapy and not released until those urges are completely eradicated. Third, your argument, and the argument of the thread you shared boils down to the Japanese being pedophiles, culturally. And that we should just...accept that. Except, no. They aren't. Just because it was legal at one point doesn't mean it was acceptable in their culture. And the fact that it was no longer legal means it definitely *wasn't* acceptable in their culture. Don't paint an entire people as pedophiles or accepting of pedophilia so that you can go back to enjoying your mangaka. Do better as a human being. And finally...you weren't the one who was hurt by this. It was the children who were abused so that Watsuki could get his rocks off. |
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The Not so Chosen One
Posts: 433 |
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It wasn't mild and you know it. You did it on purpose knowing people were gonna reply.
"Absolutely no words" after two whole paragraphs lol
Oh yeah, considering the studio that made Tokyo Revengers, Call Of The Night and the new Bastard!! anime... people talk about this studio as if it was JC Staff, the ones who produced the Biscuit Hammer anime, or something.
It's derailing because there's always someone who bitches about the same thing in every thread related to RK or Watsuki. And you can't come here to say that the "not even explicit" mention wasn't done on purpose to elicit this discussion.
I've read what they said earlier about "wanting to take revenge" on their bully, and I just imagined it as something a future school shooter would say. This is the person who gets to judge people who still like RK's story's characters, plot and themes without having to like the author, while also not making the effort to read other people's arguments to keep coming back to the story.
This is a pretty great stance to have, ngl. |
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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My argument is that this issue is not as cut and dry as people are making it. For or against supporting the series/creator. I'm probably bad at expressing myself through text. I am not saying the people of Japan are pedophiles. I'm just saying sexuality in Japanese society is in a different place than the west. Why do so many anime still sexualize underage characters? There has to be an underlying cultural problem that's the root. More and more it does seem like Japan is catching up but in some ways they are still behind. |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 488 |
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Nah, it is cut and dry. You shouldn't sexually abuse children. Or pay someone to do it for you, like Watsuki did. There is no gray area here. Don't pull that whataboutism BS. Don't try to move the goalposts. Don't post some thread from Twitter about a guy comparing a 40 year old man who is sexually aroused by elementary school girls to people overreacting about a 24 year old dating a 19 year old. Deal with the realities of what Watsuki did.
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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I dealt with it and I've come to peace with it. Why is it impossible to agree that you shouldn't abuse children but also that if someone has paid their debt to society they deserve another chance? If Watsuki was charged for crimes like this again then it would be a lot easier for me to drop him like a ton of bricks. If one instance of his behavior is enough for you then so be it but don't vilify others for not sharing the same mentality.
At the end of the day I'm not even a big enough fan of Ruroni Kenshin to own any of the manga or anime. I just watched the anime on TV and read the manga in Shonen Jump and enjoyed it at that time. The themes in the show resonated with me personally and maybe I'm naïve but I want to believe in giving people a chance at redemption. That's just my personal stance. |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 488 |
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Because he hasn't paid his debt to society. He got a slap on the wrist and a $1900 fine. What's that? Half of his child porn budget for the year? Did any of that money go to the victims of his crime? No. Has he done anything in the years since to make up for it?
1. You don't get a mulligan for child porn. 2. Nobody is vilifying anyone for watching the show. It's those of you who are actively fighting to defend a child predator who are being vilified, and rightly so.
People need to earn redemption. They don't get handed it when the authorities let them off. That's the entire point of Kenshin's quest, for Christ's sake. Last edited by flamemasterelan on Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ShinuZERO
Posts: 53 |
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You are your own judge of what is and isn't enough. If you feel like he got off lightly, that's more of an issue with the Japanese justice system. The fact that he is still working today with his material is being adapted means that to some degree the society of Japan is fine with how it all played out. |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 488 |
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So? That just means that powerful people look out for powerful people. It pays to have friends in high places Have you never been confronted with the concept of injustice? Have you ignored the last few years of the US film industry revealing how many predators were allowed to work unimpeded? Did you miss the standing ovation that Roman Polansky, a child predator who is currently a fugitive living in a country that won't extradite him, received at the Emmy's?
And, no, you can't pass the blame onto the Japanese justice system. Watsuki still bought the child porn. |
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 1440 |
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Ah, but there's the problem. How somebody defines "paying their debt to society" is extremely subjective. To you, it would seem that Watsuki paying his fine and brief work hiatus was enough, but for a lot of other people it seems like a paltry inconvenience that is unlikely to compel him to change his ways - especially considering he immediately went back to his previous place of notoriety. To use a similar example to explore this, let's talk about a disgraced celebrity who did something horrible that I, personally, think has done everything he could to "pay his debt to society" - Michael Vick. For folks not interested in US Football, Vick was a star athlete who, in the prime of his career, was arrested and convicted for running a horrific dog fighting ring for profit. In doing so he enabled, encouraged, and committed countless acts of horrific animal abuse, and when this all became public knowledge he became one of the most universally loathed figures in American pop culture. In the aftermath, he not only lost his job as a multi-million dollar pro athlete, but was sentenced to just under 2 years in prison. More than the harsher legal sentence, though, the difference is how Vick has acted since then. In the years following his release, he not only donated money to a number of animal welfare organizations, but has actively campaigned alongside them and acted as spokesperson and lobbyist for Animal Welfare bills, including a Federal bill explicitly targeting animal fighting. He's made a number of public apologies and has spent the last decade and change trying to make amends and show to people at-large that he recognizes the wrongness and severity of his actions, and will not repeat them. Now, that doesn't change that what Vick did was absolutely awful. It also doesn't mean I like him or will ever like him. But, I can look at the body of work he has done since his arrest and take what he's done in good faith as somebody actively trying to make up for the wrong he's done. I'm not psychic, so I can never know for certain if he's changed in his heart of hearts, but looking from the outside he's done the earnest work of atoning, and I don't begrudge folks who want to embrace him and his legacy these days. Compare that to Watsuki, who from all I can tell has never so much as offered a public apology about purchasing CSA media, or even acknowledged it at all. He, and the various companies and professionals he works with, have tried their best to pretend what he did never happened. Is it theoretically possible Watsuki is truly repentant for what he did, and has been privately receiving counseling or therapy to ensure he never does something like that again? Sure, but that's entirely speculation, and has no evidence to support it. All we have is that he paid an extremely mild fine that certainly didn't inconvenience him, and then was welcomed back with open arms with no visible friction by his business partners. And that, to me and many others, suggests he probably hasn't had reason to change - and thus we aren't comfortable giving him support or positive press by watching/reading his work. If you, and some of the other folks who seem so exasperated that people won't "forgive" Watsuki, truly and genuinely believe he's turned over a new leaf, fine. If you think the meager punishment he received is proper recompense, whatever. That's your call to make and I'm not interested in convincing you otherwise. But something like this never goes away, and the impetus for earning a second chance in people's eyes is on Watsuki himself. It's down to him earning people's "forgiveness" - not for them to offer it because you're tired of hearing about it. |
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louis6578
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I hope it's a full readaptation. Go the way of Hunter x Hunter 2011, not FMA:Brotherhood. Pretend there was never a first anime and just adapt the manga from scratch.
On the topic of the author, he's a scummy weirdo, but I'm able to separate the art from the artist. His horrible crimes aren't reflected in his work, and I think if I just watch it on Crunchyroll or wherever instead of buying physical media of his work, I won't really be giving much back to him. |
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1243 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I still love Rurouni Kenshin, and my dislike for its creator hasn't changed that. But I just can't really stomach supporting him financially, especially when he's shown no remorse or regret over his actions. He couldn't even do what Kenya Suzuki did, as awful as he is too. He is ignoring the messages of his own series. If you want to support him, fine, it's your choice, but please understand why others wouldn't want to do so. Many are able to separate how they feel about the series from its creator, but can't bring themselves to do something that would mean financially supporting him. |
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