Forum - View topicINTEREST: Japanese School Opts for Flexible Uniform Code to Support LGBT Students
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#861208
Posts: 423 |
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Yeah, I just hope the "eventually" will come sooner rather than later. Like I said, I'm writing stories that take place in a genderless culture, not as the point of the story, but as just a fact of life in that world. I just sort of hope to show people that sort of society more, to make it more familiar and less weird to readers. .... that said, it is a heavily fanservice-focused thing, with a lot of exposed bodies of both sexes. I'm worried that people will think that makes it invalid... |
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AnimeLordLuis
 Posts: 1626 Location: The Borderlands of Pandora |
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Would have been a hell of a lot easier if they just got rid of the school uniform policy and let students wear whatever they want to school.
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micah007
Posts: 205 |
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@micah007
Of course, but here is where the problem rest. In my experience the difference between those with true knowledge of what they are discussing and those primarily relying on what information they can receive from the internet is rather clear. In fact I surmise that's why the general population struggles to be scientifically literate and why the internet is such a hot bed of misinformation, you can liken this to anyone reading about black holes on Wikipedia compared to those within the theoretical field on a daily basis. Would you think it is logical for two people representing both of these camps to engage in a debate? I would hope your answer is a resounding no, consequently I simply choose not to engage in heated debates with individuals who's "knowledge" is a hodgepodge of data that to be frank I wonder if they truly understand. Since I cannot surmise where you stand given your strange reluctance to provide substantiated information to me to help you answer the question you originally proposed to me, that need be I can restate I fear prolonged debate would be a waste.
Yes all of which I am attempting to verify and potentially discuss with you in order to answer the question you proposed if you'd be so kind as to answer the questions I previously asked, since depending upon the answer I receive the answer I will provide you will vary as is expected when discussing two different groups of individuals. Since you attend university it should be no problem clarifying to me the questions I have by answering the question I stated, with the end result hopefully answering the original question you asked.
Thank you for partially substantiating your claim. As you know you link gives an error but I will try to find the article elsewhere. For fear of this debate being judged as too long this will be my last reply unless you information I asked for previously can be provided and we can answer your question which I shall repost. "So why do so many people ignore the immense inherent variability of the structure and functionality of the human brain and the scientific data produced, especially in the last decades, regarding neurobiology and psychology strongly pointing towards recognizable, albeit again heavily varying, patterns differentiating individuals with gender dysphoria from the expected traits in cis individuals of their respective sex? " |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 943 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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Regarding the "biological sex is absolute fact" argument, it is actually way more complicated than the simple "you got a Y chromosome, you're male" people think it is. Sadly I can't remember any of the specifics or find the damned article I read to link to, but suffice to say that transgender people and their supporters are not "denying scientific information/knowledge"; the anti-trans people are largely ignorant of the relevant scientific information/knowledge.
A nice thought, but opens its own can of worms. As much as I hated school uniforms and some of the policies surrounding them when I was in high school, out-of-uniform days inevitably were combination fashion show and judging/bullying people for what they were wearing, and the thought of the entire school year being that was worse than putting up with the uniform. |
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1758 |
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My thoughts as well. Though, this could be a school where having uniformity would make students feel more comfortable, such as some students coming from a more affluent home and would make those of a lower socio-economic background feel uncomfortable with their clothes. Or, the parents could want the structure that they feel uniforms provide. |
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Emdykay
 Posts: 85 |
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I am not exactly sure what further information it is you are requesting to be honest.
The question I asked was mostly rhetorical in nature as I deemed the answer your very own statement:
Thus I assumed your offer to engage in discussion would be about disputing the reliabilty or accuracy of works in favor of my views. If you are asking about the group of people I accuse of ignoring scientific works and warping reality, I am indeed talking about circles outside academia, nor do I believe academia is doing this, considering articles do manage to get released in prestigeious and high impact journals, such as my example in the Nature journal. If it is something else you have in mind please clarify as I am very much interested in this conversation, especially should you be someone with actual familarity on the subject matter (so may I ask if you did major and worked in a related field?) that does not share my opinion, be it in this thread or private message. |
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OtakunX
Posts: 73 |
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Anytime I see someone trying to defend their points with "I saw an article" or "I read a scientific paper" just makes me laugh. If you seriously think cause someone smarter then you wrote a paper that you happened to agree with is what makes your decisions for you then I suggest looking into more papers. You can find scientific papers or journal articles that prove almost every opinion through out the whole world of weirdness. Most papers whether they make sense to you or not usually base a lot of their points on very little evidence or small points of other papers which are taken highly out of context. Some people believe certain facts and others find other facts offensive and wont let you talk about them. I tend to prefer the side willing to talk about anything instead of the side that silences you for speaking what we know as of now to be facts.
Lastly, the idea of "removing the uniform policy" doesn't help the problem. You do understand that no uniform doesn't mean no dress code, right? Even my schooling had dress codes and the codes get stricter and stricter in todays outrge culture. |
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Łukasz Kawosz
Posts: 77 |
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Enlighten me, how LGBT people are going to have children? Well maybe except the Bi part. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
Posts: 943 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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The L, G and T have been having children for ages. Aside from artificial insemination, both done by medical professions and the turkey baster method, for a very long time LGBT people have married "straight" and even had children to appear straight to society. |
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nargun
Posts: 929 |
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Let me tell you about a conversation I had with my mother. She asked me about my little sister's sexuality and I said something to the effect of, "well it's not exactly my concern, is it, since I don't want to have sex with her myself". There Are Ways. Anything more you don't really need to know, do you, unless it's a problem you or those close to you face. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5451 |
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Has anyone ever questioned why girls traditionally wear skirts and not boys? Or does everyone assume it was arbitrarily decided?I confesses I do not fully know the answers myself, though I fount this quote informative
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Revolutionary
 Posts: 605 Location: New England |
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This is really neat. Although I don't want to compare to how miserable the West fails at this, because I know that Japan certainly also has major issues with acceptance of transgender people.
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SHD
Posts: 1756 |
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I'm also a modern woman and I've no idea what this person (I'm having doubts that it's really a woman) is on about. I menstruate for five days a month, and in my experience tampons and other similar products are effective regardless of what clothes I'm wearing. It literally has zero effect on my hygiene. (In fact, changing tampons/etc. is a lot easier when you can use both hands instead of trying to hold your skirt with one.) Urinating is also perfectly possible and comfortable for women wearing pants, considering that you have to pull your underwear down anyway, and also have you ever tried to pee while holding a skirt so it doesn't get into the toilet? Yeah. It's not a biological reason, it's something that was decided just because. Please explain hakama to me, which is traditionally menswear and yet it's basically a skirt. Or how kimono is a unisex clothing. The only time skirts are better than pants is during hot, humid summers. Otherwise... nah. Last edited by SHD on Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Violynne
Posts: 128 |
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Your posts overlook the basic tendency of humans wanting to label everything. This is never going to change, and the "basics" of gender comes down to the simplification of "boy" or "girl". Not only are there physical attributes which differ, but almost every society on the planet inhibits a gender with specifications which separate them them. Sex is taboo in most places, and this leads to the segregation of genders in many areas, including the basic fitting room. To rectify this would take generations. To start, we could do something as simple as taking "Male/Female/Other" and instead replacing it with "Human". Basic rights should be given to everyone because they're human, yet the species claiming to be "intelligent" have difficulty adhering to this. Whether it be gender, race, religion, or skin color (and definitely not limited to this list), someone, somewhere will always remain prejudice against it. Ignorance cannot be removed from the human trait. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2404 |
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Klinefelter here! I've been diagnosed with Klinefelter's since my second known bout of estrogen level increase almost half a decade ago. If I didn't have an actual chromosome test done (I retested last year due to concerns of a false positive), I would've never have known I was physically intersex. I still identify as a cis-male, but I've always been interested in the hobbies of the opposite sex. I'm not sure if this is a nature thing rather than a nurture thing, but at this point, I don't think I'll find out why. Does this make me an expert in the scientific field? No, but I've had my own condition explained to me in quite a lot of detail AND as a science nerd, I've since started focusing more of the science of sex and gender out of personal relevance.
Scientifically, biological sex is far more diverse than we give it credit for. Intersex is more of a blanket term. Klinefelter's syndrome indicates a mix of chromosome types unusual in the cell. In my case, I have XXY chromosomes. For the most part, the extra X chromosome looks deactivated, but its expressive X partner has messed with my hormones since birth, suppressing the testosterone in my body periodically throughout my life. The Y chromosome, active, is probably the reason I have perfectly functional male genitalia, though. I look, sound, and for the most part, act like a normal male, but I also have a secondary set of feminine characteristics that are more expressive in my personality than my body. But that's just it. Am I male because of my chromosome count or because I happen to have male genitalia? If you believe the former, then what about people who are XXY whose Y chromosome were less expressive, giving them female genitalia? There are also XY with female genitalia and XX with male genitalia (while less likely, the X chromosome still carries and can express Y chromosome characteristics)? If you believe the latter that genitalia are the decisive factor to sex, then what about those with mixed genitalia? Do they get special authority to choose their sex? What about those whose genitalia WERE female at birth, but later developments caused their genitalia to morph shape with characteristics of the genitalia of the opposite sex? Exceptions to the rule, sure, but far more likely than people often think about on a daily basis. Truth is, sex is binary for humans in how the natural intent** of biological reproduction is to create offspring capable of producing and passing on their genes through the form of single cells (think semen and the egg). But nature is diverse and far from perfect, and for some non-human species, non-binary sex is actually a survival necessity. This isn't the case for humans today, and may never be, but we're capable of evolving in that direction should it ever become necessary. Note: **There is no conscious intent in nature, but the instructions in our DNA push toward the binary sex model, as it is currently a contributing factor to our species' successful evolution. This "intent" can change in a species over multiple generations if it becomes crucial to survival and the binary sex model is no longer efficient for the environment. I don't have specific sources for the moment, but this is the basic science behind my own condition, so I'd hope I know what I'm talking about. And if you think I'm wrong, you're free to do your own research (in fact, I encourage it--I'm no primary source!). For a look into the attitude I have toward science and critical thinking (learning how to distinguish between accurate studies vs. incomplete/inaccurate studies, etc.), check these two entertaining videos by channel, This Place. They put a lot of our politically divisive world into context: "How does do science?" - https://youtu.be/3MRHcYtZjFY "Why can't we agree on facts?" - https://youtu.be/ZB-Iwuq5VN4 -------- And with the meat out of the way, back to the news topic itself! I honestly want to know how the school board came up with this. In my experience in Japanese schools (as a student and an Eikaiwa teacher), no one is ever usually concerned with LGBTQ+ stuff, even when it involves their students, unless someone causes some sort of trouble with it. Of course, I never knew of any LGBTQ+ students when I was among them, but as a teacher, students often talked about their gay or lesbian friends pretty casually when the topic came up in our English textbooks and curriculum. How progressive does this school perceive itself and what is it trying to accomplish as an unwritten goal? Really interesting. Personally, I'd love to try on a skirt in public. I already have long hair, little body hair, and act quite feminine without coming across as unintentionally gay or trans, and I've seen men in fashionable skirts (not kilts) before and it never bothered me. Frankly, if society wasn't so nitpicky, I'd probably wear nothing but exclusively knee-length skirts in the summer and stick with my jeans in the colder months. I can't tell you how much I hate how my work place's dress code leaves no room open for men to wear anything but dark, long dress pants, long-sleeved dress shirts, choking ties, and overcoats, even during the summer months. I do NOT like sweating like a dog in my car while until the air conditioning finally cools down, just to get out and walk to the entrance a distance away and start sweating and smelling again. Forget looking nice. It's just gross. |
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