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Forum - View topicThe ANN Aftershow - Navigating Toxic Fandom Discourse
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ChirashiD
 Posts: 172 Location: WA |
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Toxic discourse in fandom exists because toxic people exist. I'll try not to point to one side or the other in terms of political or social ideology but there are extremists and those not so extreme who happen to be anime fans as well. The internet, social media and the very nature of expressive freedom exposes everyone to those who simply can't keep their political and entertainment views separate. Maybe everyone can actually be happy about that as long as this idea of "spaces" is followed. Anime News Network is considered one of those spaces to talk about anime with relatively strict standards to also be respectful and tolerant of others. Sadly there are people who target those spaces for the sole purpose of violating community standards.
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KrisPNatz
Posts: 19 |
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Damn, sorry you had to deal with all that, I have had no interest in Dungeon Meshi but I'm honestly FLABBERGHASTED at there being this kind of 'toxicity' within the fanbase cause from the outside looking in it comes off as such a non-controversial series but then again maybe that's why a section of the fandom is so "sensitive" and thus over-reactionary to anything that deviates from their personal perception. Its always ironic seeing some of the most vitriolic reactions to discussions around fiction stemming from series people often view as "comfort anime", you'd think they'd be more CALM from their self induced comfort lmao.
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4516 Location: New York |
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One could make the argument that because they view the show as a comforting presence they react that much more strongly to the idea that said comfort is being threatened. That of course, in no way justifies the vitriol being thrown towards interviewers, creators, or other fans. If anything, it seems almost paradoxical, especially when as noted, there are a lot of toxic, bad-faith people wanting to stir the pot for their own reasons. |
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KrisPNatz
Posts: 19 |
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This is true, I just wish these people could have the self awareness to realize that if they're utilizing a piece of media as a safe space and thus going to be extra sensitive about it and others' opinions of it, they should make their interest insular to singularly themselves and maybe official accounts for the IP, otherwise they need to liberally use the block button. I get people always wanna participate in fandom but they really should pick a lane of insular enjoyment or community participation cause especially with something popular, contrary opinions and headcanons are of course going to exist en masse. I just will never understand the approach of doing varying degrees of self insertion and projection onto a piece of media then being viscerally mad to the point of enacting digital harassment when everyone else obviously isn't going to share the same opinions and views of said media. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
 Posts: 5049 |
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Nigel Planter
Posts: 97 Location: London, UK |
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In my experience the people and communities that try to portray themselves as the most wholesome, friendly, and non-toxic tend to have the biggest skeletons in their closet. As you said there's a lot of gatekeeping thing going on by people to try to maintain that illusion so they get upset whenever something threatens it. Or perhaps a more charitable reading might be they have no idea how to react to conflict so they over correct to the extreme. Final Fantasy 14's community is one I'm unfortunately very familiar with.
Multiple things can be true. Toxicity isn't a monopoly or partisan issue. Saying "You're dumb if you think X character is Y" is no more or less toxic than saying "You're dumb if you don't think X character is Y". That's why the rise of the phrase "media literacy" has become so exhausting and annoying since it tends to just mean there's only one interpretation of something and everyone who doesn't agree with you is some kind of illiterate troglodyte. |
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Themaster20000
 Posts: 866 |
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It honestly comes down to a lot of these people shaping their entire personality around media they like, viewing any sort of criticism of said media as an attack on them as a person. Modern fandom in general has this growing sentiment of people, reading reviews to have their opinions validated.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Posts: 5049 |
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AverageAnimeFan
 Posts: 58 |
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That's my favorite part of ANN; Old review threads for series from the early 2000s. I can spend hours reading through all the angry fan (and sometimes anime distributor employee/ceo/or voice actor) reactions to critical reviews. |
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malvarez1
Posts: 1964 |
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I know what you mean; the 2000s was the Wild West for ANN. The forums were way less civil than now. |
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juaifan
Posts: 135 |
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I like the one meme of the guy sitting on the bus and looking out the window at a beautiful sunset and it's simply called "enjoying a thing without ever interacting with the fandom".
"Fandom" is more trouble than it's worth to me these days; at least on any mainstream site like Reddit or X where everyone and anything can voice an opinion on something and it's more than likely purposely showing you inflammatory posts to drive up engagement. If I discuss a show or game in public with the English community now it's usually on heavily curated Discord servers or image boards that tend to avoid all that stuff.. I can't say I ever interacted with the "Dungeon Meshi" fandom much but given what I've heard and saw about it with that interview I think I'm fine with that. I think that's just something that happens with every series that gets mainstream enough though and DunMeshi was the hot new thing for awhile so of course it's going to attract people of all kinds, |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4729 |
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I'm only half-joking when I say that the worst thing about being an anime fan is other anime fans.
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ChirashiD
Posts: 172 Location: WA |
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I was intrigued by the point Lynzee made about misinterpretation of communication, in her case with interviews, the intent of some of the questions could be solely inquisitive or contextual and rightfully denies responsibility when the intent was misunderstood and triggered a reader's emotions. Both commenters in the podcast then agreed that things have to be worded very carefully because of their experience with some of the reactions they've gotten.
But I think this potential for misinterpretation actually works both ways. In other words, the reactions and the readers are often misinterpreted too. That involves the author directing the content of the column or presentation not jumping to conclusions or preconceived notions about the reader's responses. So it's not just to carefully and concisely frame your content but also to not overly anticipate the kind of feedback you get and evaluate different possible reasons for any confusing or seemingly toxic feedback. |
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KrisPNatz
Posts: 19 |
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I didn't miss anything. You can have direct interest in only canon aspects of a story and still be projecting or self inserting either into the world or onto characters. Making an anime a "safe space" or a comfort watch can still be a form of self insertion and projection because all these things have the end goal of self imposed immersion. Firstly, fanon shipping is most often not linked to self insertion but instead a fan's personally desired interpretation, coupling and sometimes outcome even though there are also plenty of times projecting onto a character to be with another character they are attracted to is also commonplace. The latter applies here both in regards to Marcille/Falin as well as Marcille/Laios. If by your definition you consider shipping to be a self insertion practice (even tho I slightly disagree because people ship for different reasons) then by your own logic Laios/Marcille shippers being mad at a question they interpret as being about shipping Marcille/Falin is the same thing, thus there's nothing opposite about that. Secondly, autism interpretations can come from someone who has autism but does not feel a kinship with or relation to a character and thus would not be projecting onto said character. These interpretations can come from a place of personal experience and lead to some autistic fans projecting onto the character but not always. Someone can project onto Laios entirely based on how he is portrayed in the manga/anime, be neurotypical and then be offended to see other fans interpret Laios as being neurodivergent because they view that interpretation as suggesting that they themselves are neurodivergent and thus with an ableist mindset they view that statement as an insult to themselves and would react negatively to the interview question. Part of it yes is bigots being bigots for bigots sake and dogpiling on a chance to shut down "an agenda" but the reason a lot of bigots repeat sentiments like "the west is ruining anime" is because they find anime (for some reason) to be a haven where their prejudices are acceptable and view it as an escape to be themselves. Self insertion is not singularly a behavior of people with headcanons so no it is not the opposite situation, there is no opposite situation because there are those that project and those that do not in regards to both the agreeable and vitriolic reaction to the interview. |
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Avec ou Nous
Posts: 139 |
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Some of the most toxic fandoms out there are children's cartoons like Steven Universe and My Little Pony. There's a surprising handful of children's cartoons with fanbases that have driven their peers to suicide over shipping wars or fanart, or tried to blackmail the producers of the show, or harassed the actors and staff for whatever reason and just in general make discussion toxic. It's always about the fans rather than a show itself. If I had to put forth a theory it would be that the most accessible media tend to attract certain groups of people to it. Dungeon Meshi is one of those shows I've seen that has gotten a reputation for being one of those series that might appeal to people who don't like anime in the first place. So perhaps when people see things that they don't like in the show or the fandom they get upset because they feel it or the fanbase is supposed to be better than that. Or perhaps the people that are more likely to gravitate towards "safe space" shows tend to not be the best at interacting with other people and it ends up leading to conflict when differences of opinions arise. One Piece fans had to witness certain groups of fans harassing WIT Studio employees on social media recently as well and it was unfortunate. |
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