Forum - View topicREVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam Wing Collector's Ultra Edition Blu-Ray
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TrowaAyanami
 Posts: 17 |
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OK, I have a bit of a story to tell regarding this.
Back in 2000, the only "anime" related shows I experienced at the time were episodes of Pokemon and Digimon that would air on the UK Saturday morning show SM:TV Live, but since I was 12 at the time, I didn't know what the term anime even was as I only knew them as "those weird cartoons with the matching lip flaps" But around October, me and the family went on a trip to Florida for 2 weeks and me and my sister were checking out what was on Cartoon Network at the time and there were 4 shows on that immediately caught our attention: Gundam Wing, Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon and Tenchi Universe. I was completely blown away with what I saw, as you simply didn't see shows like this back in the UK at the time, especially with this amazing trailer playing during the commercials (with Peter "Optimus Prime" Cullen narrating over it!) I also remembered how insane it was that there were even "uncut" episodes that would run on the Midnight Run (back before it was called Adult Swim), granted those uncut moments were just characters saying "damn", "hell" or "kill" and the occasional blood here and there, as well as some humorously baffling moments like when they changed Duo's nickname from the God of Death to the Great Destroyer in the censored version. So yeah, while I am certain most hardcore Gundam fans continue to dismiss it as being one of the weakest parts in the whole franchise, I still hold this show close to my heart as Gundam Wing was pretty much my first major exposure to anime. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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Well, I've been expecting this review from Lauren for sometime now, bracing for the utter savaging of it give her past opinions on the subject. And it's honestly much less harsh than I expected. So I don't need to do the big full-blow defense I was planning for the event. I'll just give a brief summarization as why I like Wing and think it's one of the best entries in the franchise.
I admit that I am very much a heretic when it comes to Gundam. My introduction to it was G Gundam on Toonami, followed some years later by watching Gundam 00 and then seeking the rest of the various series. I think Gundam is better the less "Real Robot" it pretends to be. That Gundam 0080 did the "War is a Tragedy and not a Game " theme so perfectly that it's redundant for other series to retread that ground without any new insights (See Thunderbolt) That Yoshiyuki Tomino is more often than not a hack and that the vast majority of the UC Gundam timeline is more terribly written than the AU series. What I like about Gundam Wing is it's optimism and sincerity, it actually has faith in that young people can truly change the world and end the cycle of war unlike UC Gundam and doesn't flip-flop on it's ideals unlike Seed Destiny, Age and IBO season 2. It's theatricality as the Gundam pilots stylishly mow down their opponents and do gloriously ridiculous stunts. (In many ways, it is the spiritual forefather of Code Geass.) It's leads who are for the most part in the beginning are crazy but endearing in their craziness. For Zechs and Treize who are legitimately charismatic, likable and complex "antagonists" who are properly morally gray and can even be seen as heroes in the series as well. For it's female cast that don't just exist to be kill to give the Wing Boys and Zechs angst but get to be awesome in their own right especially Relena and Noin. For it's meditations on the nature of war that acknowledges the contradictions such as there can be nobility and purpose in it but that it should also end for the betterment of all and that it is sometimes perhaps better to be a principled loser over a dirty victor. It also has some of the very best Gundam songs courtesy of Two-Mix and very memorable soundtrack courtesy of the composer of Shadow of the Colossus. Are there better Gundam series? Yes, G, 0080 and Turn-A are superior to it. But otherwise it stands shoulder to shoulder with the likes of the original Mobile Suit Gundam and 00 in my eyes and is in the upper tier of Gundam series.
Only if you think the likes of Zeta, Char's Counterattack, Victory and 0083 to be "intelligent." Wing actually has things to say about the nature of war and politics that are connected to the real world. Hell, it even predicted the debate about drone warfare with the mobile dolls.
I missed the boat back when it was on Toonami (wasn't interested in Giant Robot shows at the time as a kid.) and first watched it in 2010. So your assumption is wrong. Last edited by Zeino on Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:12 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8472 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I've always found Gundam Wing's approach to its own philosophy and themes as being remarkably unsubtle, even for Gundam, to a ridiculous level. It's almost a caricature of the typical "let's all jaw on about war and peace during combat" in the franchise with how it clobbers the viewer over the head with its messages rather than establish character nuance. It's like what a very vapid person's idea of a "smart mecha show" would be, to me.
Also, like even the best Gundam TV shows, it's about eight or nine episodes longer than it needed to be. They could have removed the White Fang stuff and put in the Endless Waltz material and that would have been optimal. That being said, I have a fondness for some of the mechanical designs, the spy movie-ish BGM, and a few of the battles. If it were on television again, I'd watch it if there was nothing else on, or at least DVR it. It just isn't worth a purchase. |
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Kalessin
 Posts: 931 |
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Yeah. I hate the box. It's ridiculously large and not worth keeping. It takes up way too much shelf space to be reasonable. I want a box to be large enough to hold the disc cases and that's it, and this goes way in the other direction. The stuff in the box is practically swimming in there with them having to add extra cardboard to hold it in place. It looks good on the outside, but it's a total waste of shelf space. Unfortunately, buying the set with the ridiculous box is the only way to get the extras - including the art book.
I loved it when I first saw it, and when Gundam Seed first came out, I thought that there was no way that it was going to top Wing, but ultimately, I thought that Seed was way better (and it's still my favorite). All in all, I'd say that Gundam Wing is really cool, but the story is kind of all over the place, and it definitely doesn't fell well planned out at all. The way that things go more or less makes sense as you're watching it, but when you look at it as a whole, it really doesn't fit all that well. I'm totally in agreement that most folks love it out of nostalgia rather than because it's really all that much better than other Gundam series (though I think that plenty of folks never really watched any of the others). If it was your first Gundam, then it made a big impact because of a lot of the Gundam stuff, but many Gundam series would presumably have done the same, and while I still very much enjoy it, I definitely don't think that it stands up as well to other Gundam series as its popularity would suggest it should. Somewhat similarly, it seems really weird to me that the first Ghost in the Shell movie is so well liked. I saw GitS: SAC first and really liked it, and then when I watched the movie, the ideas weren't new, and it just didn't seem very good in comparison such that I really don't like the first movie much as I love SAC. I suspect that most of the folks who really like that movie saw it first - and they may very well have then seen GitS: SAC later and liked it to, but seeing the movie first gives it a different sort of impact. I suspect that someone seeing Gundam Wing for the first time after seeing a Gundam series like Seed or 00 would not like it anywhere near as much as the fans who were introduced to Gundam through Wing. But regardless, I still enjoy Wing. It just isn't as good as some of what has come after. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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I saw 00 and Seed before Wing and I thought it was the more or less the equal to both of them so you are kind of making strawman assumptions here. And it's kind of ironic that Seed is the one you are championing as it is often deeply despised by fans that HAVE seen other Gundam series... |
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Codeanime93
Posts: 599 |
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I've never exactly understood the hate boner most Gundam fans in the west apparently have for Kira Yamato besides the classic "he's a gary stu" complaint they lodge against him that's mostly based around his character in the meh sequel. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8472 Location: Penguinopolis |
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He has no discernible personality. He's a non-character. He's a cipher for the audience to plug their own personality into, like a silent protagonist in an RPG. You might as well be allowed to enter a name for him at the beginning of the show, because Kira Yamato is just a vehicle for the plot and nothing else. That, unfortunately, is the case with much of Gundam SEED, that it is completely soulless and barren of personality. Gundam Wing is at least earnest, if a little desperate to impress. Heero Yuy actually has more going for him than Kira. Even the worst UC characters like Katz or Mondo are preferable, because as insufferable as they are, at least they're actual characters, and not projection screens for the audience. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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I'd say bad-written characters who are suppose to be sympathetic yet utterly fail at it like Shin, Kou, and Kamille are worse. Better bland than obnoxious. (Not that I think that Kira is bland really but arguing that with you would be like talking to a stone wall, only even less interesting.) |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8472 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Kamille grows and matures greatly over the course of Zeta Gundam. Kira is the same saltine cracker at the end of SEED as he is at the beginning. He's even the same at the end of SEED Destiny. He has no personality but what the viewer gives him. I'd rather endure a frustratingly unlikable character like Kou Uraki than one that isn't EVEN a character, myself. But whatever, different strokes. |
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AyanamiRei
 Posts: 87 |
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Weren't there automatic machines/drones before Wing? I remember the "saw disks" of F91 for example (in the second big onslaught scene), and there wer eprobably other examples before. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4453 Location: New York |
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Yeah, the Bugs, which were far more terrifying in nature than the mobile dolls. |
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Beatdigga
Posts: 4453 Location: New York |
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We need someone to finally animate Crossbone Gundam.
Mobile dolls are analogous to drones, while the Bugs were more akin to WMD's. They were designed for the mass murder of people first and foremost rather than more conventional military tactics of seizing positions and taking out resistance. Granted the concept wasn't elaborated on but said concept could have been really interesting. |
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Angel'sArcanum
 Posts: 303 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
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Funny that Lauren says Wing is also a fast paced Gundam, I thought the first half was kind of standard, but the second half dragged with the really contrived and irritating Zero system subplot and some of the hokey amnesia melodrama.
Like penguintruth was saying, I can stomach someone like Heero with his edgy, overly violent nature and anti-social crap (though it also helps he improves a lot in EW) over whiny perfect boy Kira who is always framed in the right even when he's being selfish and myopic. Heero was pretty unlikable in the main series though, but Wufei was even worse, he's practically a sociopath who just loves fighting. I full on really like Relena out of all the heroes, she's vulnerable but compassionate and determined, growing a lot of resolve along the way. Honestly though, even if Treize's ambitions were bad in the long run, at least he seemed to have a conscience about the chaos he unleashed as an ends justify the means kind of guy, he's more responsible and likable than Wufei and Wing Heero. As a whole, I'd say with the iffy protagonists, uneven pacing, and pretty broad story and themes, Wing wasn't great, but I didn't hate it entirely, mostly because of the villains, but I'd say it's mediocre but EW is a great finale which lifts it a bit. The protagonists at least have a bit more character than 00's, which also had pretty lame villains to boot. Also, Zechs was Char done right frankly, don't @ me. |
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Codeanime93
Posts: 599 |
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I would never accuse Seed of having no soul or personality. You've lost me there. |
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Codeanime93
Posts: 599 |
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How is Kira the same character as he was in the beginning of Seed? He saw many of his friends and people near him die, he has changed. |
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