Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Japanese Language From Anime Different Than Normal Japanese?
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John Thacker
Posts: 1008 |
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I don't think that any of those are particularly 若者言葉, unlike the examples in that article. The first two things right there are pretty common Tokyo accent features and have been for decades, going back to old "downtown" 下町 Shitamachi dialect. The contraction example you offer in particular is something that's been taught in standard Japanese as a foreign language textbooks for decades. It's true that things blur because sometimes features that come from one particular region's accent become fairly standard young people's speech around the country (kind of similar to all the various stereotypical role language that you mention). So I'm sorry but I think that while the original argument wasn't perfect, it was more accurate than your comment. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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Agreed with that 100%. When I was studying Japanese I remember thinking quite early on that there were major differences between the Textbook JApanese I was being taught and, say, the banter in Tenchi Muyo or political/military disucssions in Gundam. Both were clearly not like the Japanese I was being taught, nor were they like each other. It exposed me to a lot of different methods of speech, vocabulary, etc. I'd never have known any of that if all I did was listen to my teacher & read our classroom textbooks. I agree that it's dumb to think you can watch One Piece and then suddenly go around speaking Japanese. But it does expose you to different kinds of speech that you might otherwise not be aware of. And it doesn't take long before you realize that...hey...these characters do NOT speak formal grammar like the textbooks teach. That's an important realization as well, in my opinion. |
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Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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Yes! It's true that the examples I pointed out are more indicative of casual speech/fast speech in Tokyo dialect than specific features of wakamonokotoba per se. The lines are blurred, as you have rightly pointed out, and I was trying to make the point that young people are more likely to use these kinds of casual speak among themselves as opposed to adults in formal situations. Thanks for pointing it out! |
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Jayhosh
Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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I'm bookmarking this for reference the next time some naive weeb is defending watching subs because it helps them "learn Japanese."
I hope to study and learn Japanese one day, it is on my bucket list. But I've long accepted that when and if that time comes I'll have to be prepared not to lean on what I've subconsciously picked up from watching a metric ton of Japanese cartoons. I'm sure when one becomes more fluent in the more respectful dialect that watching anime may very well help them further hone their skills and overall understanding of the language, though. Last edited by Jayhosh on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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+ 光
Posts: 226 |
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If I may reference a specific anime, I'd like to point out Bungo Stray Dogs. Now there's dialogue and vocabulary you don't hear everyday. I believe all the characters' use a literary type of speech which reflects the way the writers they are based of wrote, so it's very interesting to listen to. Even me - who has quite a few years experience of listening to Japanese anime and finishing up my 2nd year of formal Japanese education, I struggle to understand the almost archiac Japanese used at times. It's fun to listen to, but yeah, not very good reference for studies!
(I'm sure if you start refering to yourself as 'やつがれ’ your going to be taken away as a suspicious person ) |
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John Thacker
Posts: 1008 |
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Yeah, since Japanese as a foreign language study for the longest time was pretty business oriented along with some military learners (until the anime boom / Japanese recession), language as presented in textbooks was understandably fairly different. It's also interesting to see how different shows use Japanese. Senkoku choujuu giga airing right now is a pretty fascinating example of "naturalistic" voice acting that sounds pretty similar to how people speak in casual settings in real life. It's not the over clearly enunciation and so forth common in anime, but neither is it business life. Thanks for taking my criticism well. Last edited by John Thacker on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hameyadea
Posts: 3679 |
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Using a foreign medium to pick up words and getting used to the language is always a good way to start, and it's also fun. Using a foreign medium to pick up grammar, syntax, and using it as the only source for pronunciation is not recommended and ill-advised.
So picking up the furigana and maybe some kanji is fine, but not to start using じゃん (jan), ~んだよ (~n'dayo), or 俺 (おれ、 ore) as part of the standard lexicon. |
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NearEasternerJ1
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Anime is horrible for learning Japanese, by and large, so you shouldn't try to learn it via that way.
It's a bit like Arabic. You wouldn't want to learn the Arabic they speak in Morocco or Algeria. That's unintelligible. You learn Modern Standard Arabic so you can speak to everyone. |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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Hence why when they feature foreigners in anime speaking Japanese it's always in that textbook-style です,です form. It's alright for general use, but if you're going to make Japanese friends, you're gonna sound like a total stiff.
Use dialects according to your relationship and status to who you're speaking to. Friends and close family you can get away being a little looser with your language. To professors and CEO's, highly structured business speak is protocol. In the case of Japanese spoken in anime, well, it mostly falls along the lines of close friend territory, almost in the way how blacks would revert to ebonics in casual settings.
Like others have said, there is nothing inherently wrong using anime as a GUIDE for Japanese learning. Just don't use it as a primary resource. And I'd also like to argue that speaking in "modern standard" style all the time isn't the ideal if you really want to speak the language beyond oral tests in class. |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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This is all certainly true. On the other hand, I still think anime can be pretty valuable in learning Japanese. My Japanese teacher even encourages it, as it is a great way to surround yourself with the language in a way that is also entertaining. You can learn basic sentence structure, and a lot of useful vocabulary through anime. Just don't rely on it as your only way to learn the language. It's also pretty helpful as a stepping stone in listening comprehension, as it is clearer than normal Japanese, allowing you to more easily pick up on what is being said. Sometimes that is very helpful. I've been studying very actively for only about 8 months now, and as I progress throughout my courses and then watch anime, it is very helpful and encouraging to be able to pick out more and more words here and there, and sometimes full sentences. Once again, as long as you don't rely on it exclusively, it can be a very helpful learning tool. I also listen to a Japanese language podcast, have a weekly video meeting with a Japanese person on fluentu, and study pretty aggressively using normal textbook Japanese(which, is honestly just as awkward in actual conversation as anime-talk), so I think the key is really diversity and surrounding yourself with as much of the language as possible.
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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Having said that, I do feel like there's a tendency among Japanese learners to overstate the dangers of "anime Japanese". Consumption of media aimed at native speakers is highly beneficial for improving general comprehension, and the more interesting said media is to you personally, the more likely you are to sustain motivation. Besides, unless you're an advanced learner with a good grasp on the social cues of the language community in question, it's generally not a good idea to insert fictional characters' catchphrases into real life conversations no matter what language you're learning. In the case of Japanese the difference between the language used in anime (and other fiction) and everyday spoken language may be greater than in most European languages, but saying that most anime characters speak in a made-up language would be a strech (not implying that that's what Justin was saying). I mean, I passed JLPT N1 without classroom study, and the vast majority of the media I had consumed was anime and manga. Granted, even though I passed the test it wasn't until after I took a short advanced Japanese course in Osaka in the following year that my command of spoken Japanese could pass for "working proficiency". Additionally, some anime do have considerably more realistic language use and line delivery than most. The most obvious examples would be anime with long unscripted/improvised sequences: Peeping Life, Tesagure! Bukatsumono, gdgd fairies, etc.; John Thacker also brought up Senkoku choujuu giga, and the first episode of that one made me think it was also one of those (not sure if it actually is or not). Shows based on material not targeted at otaku also tend to use somewhat more down-to-earth and realistic styles of speech (this season's Fune wo Amu/The Great Passage comes to mind). I also liked the way dialogue was written and delivered in Shirobako - while clearly scripted and acted, it didn't give its characters any cutesy and unrealistic speech quirks (Midori's way of speaking might be the closest it gets to that), characters would sometimes flub their lines in believable ways (messing up polite constructs, slipping into dialects, etc.), and the overall atmosphere of workplace communication was portrayed pretty realistically, in my experience. Last edited by vonPeterhof on Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I think it's important to make a distinction here: Learning Japanese by copying what they say in Anime and that's it? Completely horrible idea. Using Anime (or any other Japanese media) in addition to proper education in formal Japanese? Very helpful. |
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Suena
Posts: 289 |
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One good thing about youtube is that there are vloggers from all over the world. It's pretty much a gold mine for getting real-life examples of how regular people talk in their respective languages.
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MarshalBanana
Posts: 5483 |
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So people ion Japan speak in a similar manner to a middle class Victorian family?
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I think we already made it clear that the best way to learn a language is to study the formal core of it. But in Japan, like anywhere else on earth, there are regional-, age-, and situational- variations of that core. |
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