Forum - View topicThirty Years Ago: The Best Anime of 1986
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Marzan
 Posts: 518 |
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I agree with this.No one had really brought up anything about the anime of today before he had already mined the field in expectation for the war he finally got. |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3768 |
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It was a bit preemptive I'll admit. I have seen such sentiment before so I can't say I was that worried. I would welcome a real challenge though. That is much more satisfying than having my argument played into. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I'm not entirely writing off the current generation of original titles. I've enjoyed works such as Attack on Titan, Kill la Kill, and to a lesser extent Blood Blockade Battlefront, and I make an effort every season to find any works that might have some appeal to me (the only one so far this season has been Thunderbolt Fantasy, which isn't even really anime to begin with). But beyond mainstream long-running series, reboots, and shows based off of critically overlooked older content, the industry has run rampant with themes, cultures and philosophies that make me want to gag. The obsession with "cutesiness" for girls, and herbivore culture for guys, is unbearable. Pretentious teenage drama and "coolness", tepid and cutesy humor, and artsy "sophistication", have become a cultural cornerstone for much of what's produced today, with a dearth of original works that defy marketable conventions, tropes and cultural sensibilities that I find gratingly annoying. The industry has found it's footing, and it's firmly planted in the wallets of Japanese otaku who enjoy that sort of tripe, and it sucks to see an entertainment medium I once enjoyed, turn into a generally fan-pandering machine for a culture I don't identify with. Again, a difference of tastes. I find much of today's works to be childish, fan-pandering drivel, but it seems you like it. Also, I never said "no offense", because it's your choice whether or not you feel offended by someone else's relative disgust for the modern-day industry's output.
I agree, entertainment does tend to reflect the spirit of the age, and honestly, the zeitgeist of the 80's was so much more fun, good-hearted and "real" than the modern generation. You could really sense a confident sort of silly charm to the age --- a little freyed at the corners, but its heart was in the right place. I don't at all feel the same way about modern works, which feel infinitely more restrained in comparison. Also, that the "audience has grown with the industry and is much more sophisticated and critical in its tastes" is part of the reason why the critical anime scene is so aggravatingly pretentious at times. There are few things more annoying than snooty cultural snobs who would praise overwrought philosophical commentary over a good-hearted, fun-lovingly stupid show. Some people would prefer to stroke their own ego than to "lower" themselves to plebeian tastes, which imo is so much more immature in comparison. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3768 |
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No you didn't say "No offense" but what you did say was as much a fig leaf as that, which was my point. Just because you say you are being respectful of other people's tastes doesn't mean you actually are being respectful of other people's tastes. Calling it childish pandering drivel doesn't leave any room for people who like it to have respectable taste. At least others here grant that it has its own merits even if they prefer older anime.
I'll admit I'm no expert on the subject, but stuff aimed at female otaku and fujoshi doesn't really fit in your description. The girls, while certainly cutely enough designed, are not so in a moe way. The boys are anything but herbivorous. Certainly such works can be pandering but in a different way than stuff aimed at male otaku. While you can find "sophistication" and overwrought philosophical commentary, you can also find genuine sophistication and well executed explorations of themes and real world issues. Such shows are not mere fan pandering. Certainly one shouldn't look down on the shows that are good hearted dumb fun, but the critics aren't that immature. And the stuff from this article isn't just dumb fun. There are plenty of critically acclaimed stuff here too. |
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Turro
Posts: 76 Location: México |
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Love the article! I'm a fan of ANN because of pieces like this.
Here in Mexico Saint Seiya is still HUGE, Dragon Ball level. I think it is because as someone noted before, that show debuted in europe and latin america just a few years after the original broadcast in Japan. As a kid my friends and I fell in love with the battles and plot, there was nothing like that on public television (all those bloody, bloody fights!) I just finished Zz Gundam and i think its not that bad.. it was just different. I think Rightstuf is doing a great job with the franchise. My mother was living in Japan at the time that Maison Ikkoku was airing and she told me about it a lot of times, she just loved it, looking forward for watch it in the future if there is new edition available. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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@zrnzle500: Generally speaking, it's impossible to lambast and be disgusted at something without a fandom taking offense. You seem to want to twist the conversation towards what my thoughts are on the actual people who enjoy modern-day works --- but honestly, I'm not interested in taking the conversation to that personal level (not now, anyways). I'm limiting myself to what I think of the works themselves, and if you'd like to keep speculating about my respectfulness towards the people who enjoy them feel free, but it's a dead-end as far as I'm concerned.
If you're talking about shoujo works, from what I've seen/read/watched over the years, the shoujo industry is generally fairly shallow in its portrayal of men. Much of it isn't too far-removed from the trashy romance novels you'd see in the local grocery store (maybe a bit more tasteful), but regardless, that sort of pandering is no better than the material aimed at male otaku either, so it's not much of a point to bring up if you're trying to paint the modern industry in a better light. And I for one believe that many critics are immature --- some of them even work for this very site. I never implied that the stuff from this article was just dumb fun, since I was more specifically making a commentary on people who would claim a sort of intellectual eliteness over older works, as a self-aggrandizing measure of their "mature, discriminating tastes" when it comes to entertainment. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3768 |
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Fair enough, I won't speculate about your opinion of the fandom. I only brought up female targeted works not to say the current era is better, rather that it is broader than your "moe and herbivore" caricature implied. I did say such things can be pandering as well. And sorry the last part wasn't aimed at you. I didn't want to imply the stuff from the era you prefer isn't just dumb fun. There certainly are immaturely condescending critics but I wouldn't say that about any of the staff here but that's just my opinion. I can't say I haven't seen that attitude in the forums however, and I take as much exception to it as you do.
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belvadeer
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80s anime really was a priceless treasure back in the day. I'm happy I was able to see some pretty good ones (Project A-Ko), but like a lot of people, I missed some ones that warrant seeing to this day. Thankfully, I was able to find fansubs for Windaria, so I've seen it in its uncut glory. I still need to see more of Dirty Pair, as I only watched the first few episodes a few years back and haven't gotten back to it since.
Every time I see Moto Hagio's name, all I'm reminded of is how she drew the characters for Illusion of Gaia. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Fortunately, Nozomi/RightStuf should be able to help you out there. 
https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Pair-Original-Part-Litebox/dp/B00BY6XMKE/ https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Pair-Original-OVA-Collection/dp/B005S0STWS/ https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Pair-Original-Features-Collection/dp/B0072GPQJK/ |
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Sailor Sedna
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Currently watching Saint Seiya and it's held up pretty well honestly despite being 30 years old, haven't seen Castle in the Sky in a while, but it was still wonderful, Ghibli stuff is always amazing!
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FLCLGainax
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I'm still waiting for Windaria to be rediscovered and given a faithful uncut release in the West. The Harmony Gold dub rewrote the plot into complete drivel. While the original is not without its flaws, it atleast knew what kind of movie it wanted to be.
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belvadeer
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I'm aware, but thank you for the links all the same. It might be better to watch this with an official translation anyway, since fansubs aren't 100% reliable. I just need to get around to ordering it (running out of shelf space though XD). |
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Ialdaboth
Posts: 94 |
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Great article, Daryl. And pretty devastating - another nail on the coffin of what passes as an anime industry in Japan nowadays.
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thekingsdinner
 Posts: 1087 Location: Geertruidenberg, Netherlands |
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Thanks to this awesome article I finally got around to checking out Windaria yesterday. I didn't actually expect to be as depressing as it is when I first stumbled upon it, it honestly surprised me.
Great movie however. I feel like the story is a bit flawed, but art, animation and music are absolutely gorgeous. It screams for a Blu-ray remaster. Fist of the North Star, Gundam ZZ, Dragon Ball, Project A-ko and Urusei Yatsura Movie 4 are probably my other favorites from 1986. I haven't seen Castle in the Sky in a long time so might to refresh my memory on that one. Next time I'll go check out Arion, looks awesome. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3768 |
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I think the response from most people here has shown you can enjoy the past without disparaging the present. How about instead of cheap insults, you make a convincing case that the industry is so much worse than it was in the 80's. |
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