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Answerman - How Did American Manga Releases Become Right-To-Left?


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phia_one



Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1660
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:53 pm Reply with quote
I got into manga right after they started doing the unflipped format.

As for manga cows, I've seen quite a few. It's not even a manga thing, I see so many people treat B&N like a library. It's one of the reasons why I rarely buy books in the store. It's funny because I have books from used bookstores that are in better shape than the new books.
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:39 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
Viz started publishing Inuyasha unflipped with volume 38, in July 2009.
Since then they have published unflipped "Vizbig" omnibus editions of the entire series.


There's another incentive for me to buy those Vizbigs. Thanks.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:29 pm Reply with quote
I was trying to buy Marmalade Boy on ebay and scored what I thought were 5 volumes, but to my surprise turned out to be 5 flipped comic books. Booooo. I had no idea manga used to be sold that way. At least I was prepared when I started hunting for Sanctuary. I got all 9 *volumes* of that one and managed to avoid the comics completely. I can't remember if it's flipped.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2634
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:33 pm Reply with quote
My Ranma 1/2 volumes are flipped. Sad

I celebrated the day when this practice stopped.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:00 pm Reply with quote
@sunflower

For Sanctuary, both the initial comic book format and the subsequent graphic novels are flipped. They were all published by Viz long before any unflipped graphic novels were released. The whole Sanctuary series involved five parts with a total of forty-six comics. Some were substantially more pages then usual.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1080
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:39 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@sunflower

For Sanctuary, both the initial comic book format and the subsequent graphic novels are flipped. They were all published by Viz long before any unflipped graphic novels were released. The whole Sanctuary series involved five parts with a total of forty-six comics. Some were substantially more pages then usual.


*nods* I just got caught up reading vol 1 again. Such a great story. Mine is flipped but I honestly didn't notice problems with the artwork. I remember getting confused when buying them because there were 12 volumes at first in 1994-5, then it was republished as 9 vols a couple years later.
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Sacto0562



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:57 pm Reply with quote
I think the acceptance of reading English-translated manga the same way it was printed in Japan (right to left) made it possible for something else to happen in the past few years: legal releases of the very latest chapters in digital form of many manga series within days--sometimes the same day!--as the release date in Japan, in my opinion effectively ending most of the piracy from fan-made scanlations for the most popular series.

It's now possible to get the latest installment of One Piece, Fairy Tail, and other very popular series within 2-3 days of its release in Japan. Because they no longer need to "flip" the artwork, a series like Fairy Tail could be sent to an English translator with the artwork complete (minus the word balloons and other descriptive text) and the English text added in at the same time the Japanese editors add in Japanese text.
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southplumb



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Durham, North Carolina
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:01 am Reply with quote
Don't be too hasty about calling someone a manga cow. I want to (gently) glance through an unsealed manga before deciding to buy it, and I don't go to the local comic book store very often, so I tend to look through most of their relatively small and constantly changing manga section when I'm there, but a staff member once implied I was reading without buying. I bought some books, but I was offended and didn't go there for a long time after that, though I would rather go there than Barnes & Noble or online. I wasn't there that long and I don't remember there even being any other customers in the store. I haven't noticed damaged books at stores, though I probably have seen manga cows.
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Adamanto



Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:49 am Reply with quote
Paiprince wrote:
Flopping was a thing among Western publishers pre-2004, but I think it wasn't the case for Southeast Asian manga publishers like Chuang Yi. It's been awhile, but they usually release in the original right-to-left format. I'll have to check because the only surviving copy I have from them is Pokemon Electric Tales of Pikachu and its tucked away in the attic.


I don't have their Electric Tales of Pikachu release, but I'd bet it's sublicensed through Viz and just released the way Viz did. Their Pokemon Adventures is flipped for consistency due to the first 6 volumes being based on the Viz release, while all the Pokemon manga they did purely on their own is unflipped.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:29 pm Reply with quote
thenix wrote:
I would always try to get people to sit down in the cafe at Borders and read instead of standing in the aisle, I think I got turned down every time. At the time poor highschooler me would take a book to the cafe, buy a drink and read.


Too much effort, I guess. That, and there seems to be a stick-it-to-the-man pride in sitting in the aisles. I've been given dirty looks for actually taking manga off the shelves and purchasing them.

A Waldenbooks that used to exist near me had set up a U-shaped bench next to the manga section, however, and those manga cows DID use the bench, so I guess it was a matter of effort and convenience.

Ryusui wrote:
I haven't yet forgotten Tokyopop's, ahem, "work" on the .hack manga and novels. You'd think their translator didn't even realize there was a "rest of the franchise" to stay consistent with. And even then, stuff like "Zawan Shin" was frickin' inexcusable.


If the localization team hated their jobs and were only doing so for the paychecks, they might not have.

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
Once you read a few pages, the reading format is not hard to grasp. I still LOL at the "You're Reading the WRONG Way" blurbs at the back of each book.


Well, you're always going to get new people and curious people into reading manga. It's essential to keep stable sales. A company needs a new person coming in for every person who leaves (ideally more than one new person for every person who leaves though). It's not common knowledge in the west that Japanese comics are read right-to-left, so it still needs to be there.

RHorsman wrote:
"Man, is everybody in Japan left-handed?" -Me, before finding out about flopping


Yeah, I had a classmate in middle school who's Japanese and would read Japanese magazines. I noticed that the front cover was on the other side and asked her if that was a left-handed book, and she told me that it isn't and that traditional Japanese is read right-to-left.

Wyvern wrote:
This led to my favorite silly unintended consequence of flopping: Tokyopop's original edition of Parasyte forced them to change the name of the parasite that had taken the form of the main character's right hand. Originally named Migi (which just means "right") the English version renames him "Lefty the parasite."


Oh, is that why I keep hearing people saying the parasite's supposed to be on Shinichi's left hand!

rahzel rose wrote:
I remember being so excited for some Viz titles back in the day, but the reversed name order just killed it for me. I could understand leaving out the honorifics, but when everyone is calling everyone by their first (given) names regardless of their relationship/closeness, I had to walk away. I'd rather just buy the books in Japanese and read them that way.

Do they still do this now?


In addition to the Bleach and Naruto examples, there are mixed cases, like One Piece. Those are kept as they are. (Though I guess Bleach is a mixed case too, technically.) Then there are series like Fullmetal Alchemist, which have western settings and already have given names first in the original Japanese version, so there's no concern there.

Me, I don't really mind so much. Because I started reading manga when flipped name order was the norm, I never grew accustomed to the given name coming after the family name and was even unaware of it until a few years later. I'm still at the point where I need a moment to remember that it works that way in Japan, especially when there are no cultural notes.

Gasero wrote:
Flopping seems like such a terrible idea. I think if someone was already interested in buying a Japanese comic, they wouldn't care so much that the orientation is flipped compared to Western comics.


The idea is to get people not normally interested in them or don't know a lot about Japanese books to be able to tell what's going on. Tokyopop showed that those other companies were worrying over nothing though.

Paiprince wrote:
I find it baffling how Book Stores didn't just shrinkwrap every single volume they had on the bookstore to steer clear these manga freeloaders. All these unsold, bent manga...and then they wonder why they don't rake in the money. Utter stupidity.


If it was shrinkwrapped, they'd just tear the plastic packaging open anyway. The only real difference it'd do is that everyone would be able to tell which books were read by manga cows and which ones weren't.

It's one reason Fresh & Easy declared bankruptcy in the United States twice: Most of their produce is wrapped in cellophane, so it caused people to just tear them all open to inspect the produce.

Sacto0562 wrote:
It's now possible to get the latest installment of One Piece, Fairy Tail, and other very popular series within 2-3 days of its release in Japan. Because they no longer need to "flip" the artwork, a series like Fairy Tail could be sent to an English translator with the artwork complete (minus the word balloons and other descriptive text) and the English text added in at the same time the Japanese editors add in Japanese text.


And yet a lot of One Piece fans still find reasons to refuse to read the official translations, so you have a divide between people who call a particular group of pirates "The Seven Warlords" and "Shichibukai," and such. The One Piece Wikia is the only wikia I've browsed about a Weekly Shonen Jump series that does not use official translations and spellings for its article titles or most of its content.

southplumb wrote:
Don't be too hasty about calling someone a manga cow. I want to (gently) glance through an unsealed manga before deciding to buy it, and I don't go to the local comic book store very often, so I tend to look through most of their relatively small and constantly changing manga section when I'm there, but a staff member once implied I was reading without buying. I bought some books, but I was offended and didn't go there for a long time after that, though I would rather go there than Barnes & Noble or online. I wasn't there that long and I don't remember there even being any other customers in the store. I haven't noticed damaged books at stores, though I probably have seen manga cows.


A good way to tell a true manga cow from someone who's just browsing is if they're standing up or not. Someone who's standing up wants to get a quick sample and I don't mind that at all. Someone who's sitting down or lying down is obviously in it for the long haul.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:30 pm Reply with quote
@southplumb

You mentioned that you were browsing in a comic shop. Such shops are usually locally owned and are working on a much smaller margin than some place like Barnes & Noble. Also, unlike book stores a comic shop cannot return unsold (including damaged and unsellable) books. This makes them much more sensitive to people doing more than a quick glance at a book.

You may have just gotten the owner on a bad day. Wink
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JonLa



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Pretty sure cost was Tokyopop's primary motivation, they just turned it into a wonderful marketing spin about it being more authentic.

I liked Toren's argument that it was just another aspect of good translation. We don't learn to read in that direction, and it still feels unnatural to me sometimes. We don't print Haruki Murakami's novels in the Japanese direction, after all! It was certainly necessary to "break" manga in the English-speaking world, but now we'll all learned to love it.

Unless the left/right thing was crucial to the narrative, it never bothered me, and I dare say that I never noticed once that the art was mirrored. But then, remember that for most of the period where manga was flopped, we didn't have art and copies on the internet to compare them to.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:04 pm Reply with quote
JonLa wrote:
Quote:
We don't print Haruki Murakami's novels in the Japanese direction, after all!


The difference is the art work. The Japanese don't use a rigid grid format for panels. The better the artist is the more the eye is drawn from panel to panel in the original orientation. This is messed up by the mirror imaging. This is not a factor for a book that is text only or as in most light novels has full page illustrations.

As I mentioned above. Viz put the Evangelion manga out in both left to right and right to left versions. I bought both versions. After a little experimentation I found that the right to left original version flowed better. It is subtle but there.

I found it only took a couple of volumes to get used to the Japanese format. I expect it depends on how and how much manga you read.
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MrBonk



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:58 am Reply with quote
Book Cows, ugh. Freakin seriously man. What is wrong with those people?!
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:00 pm Reply with quote
MrBonk wrote:
Book Cows, ugh. Freakin seriously man. What is wrong with those people?!


Too lazy to move and too cheap to buy the books.

The only thing I don't understand is why they don't just go to a library (unless their libraries have terrible manga selections like mine).
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