Forum - View topicDo you think teenage anime fans are harming the industry?
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StrangeIslands
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I honestly have to think this from time to time. Considering that all they seem to care about is what's popular. That's it. It's all that sells these days, popular titles. Naruto, Bleach, Attack on Titan, Black Butler, Hetalia, DBZ, Fullmetal Alchemist. Sure some of these titles are of good quality. However it's the popularity that makes them successful.
Everything else just doesn't seem to get anything close to it and depending on the title only fans of a certain era will like it. For example, teens in the mid-late 00s will be fans of DN Angel but not the next decade and thus be forgotten eventually. Teens tend to also like what's hip & new so cute moe shows fall into this category whether we like it or not. Older titles don't even cross their minds which varies depending on the persons interpretation of what's old. Since anime titles are also judged based on sales, whatever sells the most or has the most attention gets licensed by someone. Nothing else matters. It's like a popularity contest, high school even. It disgusts me, with underrated titles like Pumpkin Scissors don't even get any respect or notice at all because either fans don't care, nobody paid attention or it didn't sell to some high expectation if licensed. That expectation being it'll be huge or in some cases mainstream. If it isn't that well then it's not successful at all. Those are my two cents on the issue. What do you guys think? |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11522 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Rather than paying attention to what's "trendy," I think you should also consider what it is to be a teen. Teens are so impressionable because they're still learning and finding themselves. And due to silly things like hormones, peer pressure, a general lack of knowledge/experience, and identity/conformity issues, I always take "teen opinions" with a grain of salt.
I remember when I was a teen in the mid '90s to early 2000s, and I was crazy for stuff like DBZ, Evengelion, InuYasha, and Love Hina. You honestly could not sway my opinion, like, ever. All things considered, though, I've also watched a lot of other stuff since then, learned to give better critical opinions/analyses, and have rightfully re-evaluated my personal tastes between then and now. Point is: I think it takes time for someone to really get their footing into fandom (for the medium in general, not just for a single entity/franchise). If you like something enough, you just have to keep immersing yourself in it until you know it really well. And after a while, hopefully, you'll develop good mix of sub-/objectivity and be able to better voice your opinions about what you do/don't find enjoyable. Don't pay attention to what everyone else says or likes. If you like it, you like it. Tell everyone why. If you don't, then you don't. But there's no reason to rain on peoples' parades, either. The world's too big, and life is too short to get yourself worked up and complain about things all the time. Go to the Talkback forum to see what I mean. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3026 |
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Both Bokurano and Dear Brother came out on R1 DVD less than a month ago.
Shin Mazinger Edition Z is up for pre-order. So is From Russia With Love. And Windy Tales. It's not just smaller companies releasing this stuff. Sakura Trick was listed for pre-order this week. Somewhere in Texas, Funimation is paying actual money to dub a show about lesbian bears into English. These are not shows that teenagers are going to rush out and buy. What if I'm wrong, though, and companies generally only bring popular anime to America? Do you really want companies to begin bringing stuff over regardless of whether it will make money? That's how we got Harmagedon... and Dog Soldier... and Garzey's Wing. BodaciousSpacePirate is my username because I really, really enjoyed Bodacious Space Pirates... but I've seen Bodacious Space Pirates: The Movie: The Abyss of Hyperspace: None of Your Favorite Characters are In It: And Everyone Grew Huge Breasts Over The Summer: Also We Added a Talking Robot Bird to the Cast, and I think I'd pay someone not to license it. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Most of the shows you listed are shonen shows that are aimed to a younger audience that age-shifts to a teen demographic once you account for cultural differences, so they're expected to be popular(and Attack on Titan could be a major motion picture event).
Ultimately, however, money talks and bullshit walks, as they say: teens just don't have the clout that adults do, so you have to rally more of them at a lower price point to make the same profit. Since most adults who like anime in Japan and will spend on it have completely different tastes, their tastes will be catered to; since they pay out the ass in droves, those shows vastly outnumber those that are more standard shonen-style, which means that either a teen can stay at the periphery, learn to stop worrying and love the moe or move on with their life. Generally, it seems adult fans in America have chosen option two. Because it is so different, even if it's not what we're here for, moe really seems like it helps keeps the riajuu out - something countless felled fandoms and early attendees of gentrified events can tell you isn't a bad thing; a number of imageboards have been known to post the most disgusting and vile things to create the same effect. So the very things that keep the industry small are the very reasons the answer to your question will have to be no. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Kids these days with their rock and roll music and their doobies!
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TRNielson
Posts: 182 |
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Hardly.
While I can't give an actual demographic on age groups who watch anime, it's also clear that there is a strong adult population who watches it and who also care for anime of all kinds of genres. Yes, some are going to be more popular than others due to the fact that they either can appeal to a wider audience or just have those right combination of factors that make them popular, despite how good/terrible they might actually be. But that's never gonna have an impact on those who actually strive to make deep, thoughtful, and absolutely amazing anime. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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You are missing a concept that most anime adaptations are, in practice, a commercial for the source material. Unless your series is a "toy seller" like DBZ, Naruto, or One Piece, at most the anime run is going to be a relatively limited work that will not attempt something so ambitious such as adapting a multi volume series that has been going for half a decade (as was the case with the PS anime release). In the end, entertainment media IS all about the money, Michael Bay gets to direct Transformers because audiences want a "stupid visual effects ride", sometimes well made adaptations get under appreciated and other times they garner the respect they deserve. |
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EricJ2
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In other words, most of what's airing/aired mainstream on Cartoon Network for free...What, no Death Note, One Piece or Cowboy Bebop? (And giving one the illusion of Anime-Literate Coolness for gratis, but then, you get what you pay for.) Be glad you're not from the previous generation, trying to sell new fans on the virtues of Wolf's Rain and Witch Hunter Robin for the exact same reason. Hopefully, the rise of streaming and simulcasts can help cure all that, but the first step in a cure is admitting one has a problem. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 10137 Location: Virginia |
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The teenagers who like the most popular shows are taking nothing away from the shows you like and feel are underappreciated. They don't prevent anyone from watching, liking or buying Pumpkin Scissors or any other show. If anything, they are pumping some money into the North American industry. A small percentage of them will eventually mature into people like yourself.
If support for those really popular shows suddenly went away it is likely that the anime industry in this country would be a lot smaller and unable to provide the types of shows you like. In any case, what do you propose to do about it. I really don't think it would be possible to ban either popular shows or teenagers. I doubt you could get the North American companies to give up the money. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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As someone who was a teenager when I first got into anime (and still kind of am), I find this post to be really insulting and whiny. It reminds me of an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn, and then muttering about how good the old days were. I don't like being stereotyped as a brainless ditz who only watches the mainstream hits because DUHR MY STOOPID TEENAGE BUHRAIN. You know what? I need to take this apart.
1. No s**t, Sherlock. That's pretty much the definition of popular. 2. Haven't seen any of the Big Three, but I have completed Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist 2003, and Hetalia. In my opinion, the first two deserved the insane amounts of popularity they got. Hetalia always felt like it was more niche than mainstream, though. 3. Same with Black Butler. (Haven't seen that, either.) I always thought it was more of a niche thing for the anime fandom. 4. Can't comment on DN Angel, seeing as I only saw the first episode. I have no desire to get back to it, so do as you will. 5. Think less teens more late twenties, early thirties. Most teens are going to be into the stuff that's playing on Toonami and not the really otaku-pandering moe stuff that KyoAni and Shaft produce. 6. So Evangelion doesn't exist? I mean, that was made back in 1995, which in anime years, is equivalent to the Renaissance. It's still around and thriving. 7. Oh god, this last paragraph is the most whiny of them all. "Why can't dumb teenagers like what I like!?" Supposedly mature adults like you should not be throwing tantrums because nobody wants to watch your favorite shows. For me, I tend to try to go into as many demographics as I can. I've seen mainstream classics (Sailor Moon, Cowboy Bebop), moe slice-of-life sitcoms (Azumanga Daioh) harem comedies(Ouran) uber dark fantasy epics (Berserk,Madoka Magica), and yes, plenty of niche stuff. (Fate stay Night) Am I still one of the stupid teen sheeple? |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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So what's the problem ? Not everything can be popular like Naruto or One piece. Even so less popular manga/anime is still being written/animated so again what is the problem ?
Every decade since the 1960s has its fans who care for shows they watched and appreciated in their teens and then grew up and gave the middle finger to animes. Happened for the 60s generation, happened for the seventies generation, happened to the eighties generation, happened to the nineties generation, happened to the 00s generation and is happening again to the 2010-2020 generation. See a general trend here ? The fans that outgrow their childhood animes to appreciate the bigger picture (and watch older animes) are few. And have always been few.
Each decade has its own defining genre. The 70's had super robot shows. The 80s had real robot shows and what we would now call slice of life animes. The nineties had adventure shows, the 00s had moe shows etc... Anime titles are judged on sales numbers, so that no company will publish to lose money and then go under. That doesn't imply lesser known or older anime can't be brought to light. Think about Discotek and how it publishes animes that are older than 90% of modern fans. So on this point you're clearly in the wrong.
What do you care if an anime gets respect or not. Is your self esteem so low you can't appreciate something the rest of the fandom doesn't give a damn about ? Then the problem is with you not with them.
I think you're clearly wrong on many issues. And most importantly you give to much importance to what other think of the animes you tend to like. Don't. Your tastes are yours and if the rest can't appreciate what you like either change friends are don't give a damn about their opinions. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I am assuming that this is about anime in North America, specifically the US. If I am wrong about that then I request that StrangeIslands provide some more information.
Who are "we"? I definitely like it that cute moe shows are popular, assuming that they actually are.
What are your standards for respect and notice? The entire series was released at least three times, first by ADV and then by Funimation. You can still buy the complete collection at Right Stuf, and probably from many other retailers. Also, the five volumes of the manga that were covered by the anime were published by Del Rey. I own the original ADV singles with the art box, and the manga. EDIT: I did not realize that the Pumpkin Scissors manga is still being published in Japan, but I just saw volume 19 in the latest comic ranking list. Maybe there is a slight chance that we might get more anime from it. My answer to the title question is "no." I do not think that teenage fans are harming the industry. |
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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Good grief, what a whiner the OP is. Why shouldn't people be allowed to like popular shows? Nobody is stopping you liking your favourite shows, and without people buying AoT and the like, companies wouldn't be able to afford to license the less popular stuff. I hate the fact that Yen Press have released a Twilight "manga" but I'm not going to moan about it because it means they can bring out also awesome stuff like Thermae Romae, A Bride's Story and Barakamon for example. Bottom line is, support the stuff you like, and don't support the stuff you don't. But don't whine because your favourites aren't the most popular.
So, no, I don't think teenage fans are harming the industry, unless they pirate everything they watch and don't give any money back to the industry, but there's plenty of adults who pirate too. If your entire opinion of yourself as an anime fan is based on the fact you can't stand that stuff you like isn't popular and that you're clearly smarter than all the yoofs who like the popular stuff, which is basically what you're saying, then you need to get out of the basement, get a life and learn to respect that different people have different tastes to you. |
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StrangeIslands
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I'll put a few things into perspective. I don't hate popular titles but rather the fans who obsess over them to the point of ignoring everything else. I enjoyed Attack on Titan a lot and I'm looking forward to the 2nd season and it deserves the attention. But like Pumpkin Scissors among other underrated titles, this sort of treatment for 2nd seasons are only given to shows like SAO, Attack on Titan etc. Del Ray Manga published the first 5 volumes before the place shut down their manga division. Thus allowing Kodansha USA to take over, which is owned by Kodansha. Since Pumpkin Scissors is published by Kodansha only Kodansha USA can publish it. http://kodanshacomics.tumblr.com/post/116916755006/other-than-sport-manga-what-else-typically-doesnt http://kodanshacomics.tumblr.com/post/114054539751/do-you-or-can-you-consider-any-plans-to-rescue Judging by these links, They have no intentions of releasing older titles or license rescues. Add this along with fans who don't express much interest in particular titles to be released unless they're really popular and we have a problem. When I talk about a popularity contest, I talk about how the industry only seems to pay attention to popular titles that teens happen to be obsessed with. I mean no disrespect to teens. (But dammit they sure are annoying at times) To make a long story short, teens and the industry paying too much attention to certain fans are to blame for these problems. The manga/anime industry doesn't have to be like Hollywood and be mainstream but they should appeal to all of the fanbase, which happens to be a diverse audience with all kinds of different people and all kinds of opinions and views on the entertainment which they consume. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Sequel seasons are pretty much at the whim of the Japanese Consumer for most of the cases, if the Blu ray-dvd sales are low (on the Japanese spectrum of things) then it probably means there won't be a sequel work especially if the original season "didn't put the studio in the black". To express it again in hopefully a more clear tone, it is always about the money. |
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