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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6541
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:16 pm
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Wow, didn't know this would happen. Very interesting.
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ajr
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 465
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:46 pm
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A few summers ago I was surprised to learn that there are only 3 Zeroes left in flying condition out of the produced 10,939. The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! had to use T-6 Texans instead.
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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6541
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:04 pm
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ajr wrote: | A few summers ago I was surprised to learn that there are only 3 Zeroes left in flying condition out of the produced 10,939. The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! had to use T-6 Texans instead. |
Yeah comparing the T-6 Texans:
and the Mitusubishi A6M Zero:
They do look very much alike.
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Sailor S
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:34 pm
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ajr wrote: | A few summers ago I was surprised to learn that there are only 3 Zeroes left in flying condition out of the produced 10,939. The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! had to use T-6 Texans instead. |
And of those three, there's only one that still has the original engine. The other two use a similar American engine, a Pratt and Whitney.
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hashihime
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 20
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:17 pm
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I guess "hundreds" of people wanting to see the plane isn't too many, but it always worries me when Japanese start thinking positively about any aspect of their warlike past. Germans have rejected that past far more definitely than Japanese seem to have.
Of course, I wish Americans would reject their warlike present, too, but that is a different matter.
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Kougeru
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5604
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:20 pm
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hashihime wrote: | I guess "hundreds" of people wanting to see the plane isn't too many, but it always worries me when Japanese start thinking positively about any aspect of their warlike past. Germans have rejected that past far more definitely than Japanese seem to have.
Of course, I wish Americans would reject their warlike present, too, but that is a different matter. |
There's nothing wrong with loving the design of a war machine. Terrible things happened in the past, but it was the people that did it, not the machines. Respecting the beautiful design the of Zero is perfectly fine. It's a very beautiful machine.
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:30 pm
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mdo7 wrote: |
ajr wrote: | A few summers ago I was surprised to learn that there are only 3 Zeroes left in flying condition out of the produced 10,939. The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! had to use T-6 Texans instead. |
Yeah comparing the T-6 Texans:
and the Mitusubishi A6M Zero:
They do look very much alike. |
considering that it was the former that mostly caused the losses of the latter, thoses and the
Corsair
and the P-51
Shame ours couldn't get a chance to get a few in
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mgosdin
Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1302
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:05 pm
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hashihime wrote: | I guess "hundreds" of people wanting to see the plane isn't too many, but it always worries me when Japanese start thinking positively about any aspect of their warlike past. Germans have rejected that past far more definitely than Japanese seem to have.
Of course, I wish Americans would reject their warlike present, too, but that is a different matter. |
There are many quotes regarding the dangers of ignoring the past. It is vital to understand what happened and why, otherwise repeats of historical errors will happen. An unblinking honest assessment is what is needed.
Oh, and the Zero was a hell of a piece of engineering / art. It deserves careful study & preservation along with it's contemporaries from the US, Britain & Germany.
Mark Gosdin
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15620
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:09 pm
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I think they just like planes for the same reason kids like plane simulators. Just the fantasy. Obviously, they wouldn't want to be forced to kill someone in a real-life situation.
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7jaws7
Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Posts: 705
Location: New York State
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:21 pm
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I think it's cool that more people are getting interested in aircraft because of anime
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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6541
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:59 pm
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Sailor S wrote: |
ajr wrote: | A few summers ago I was surprised to learn that there are only 3 Zeroes left in flying condition out of the produced 10,939. The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! had to use T-6 Texans instead. |
And of those three, there's only one that still has the original engine. The other two use a similar American engine, a Pratt and Whitney. |
Wow, didn't know that.
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xScar
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 288
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:38 pm
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I took this picture yesterday in front of Hakata Station in Fukuoka.
Obviously this one isn't restored like the one in the news post, but I was quite surprised to see it out there yesterday.
Kougeru wrote: |
hashihime wrote: | I guess "hundreds" of people wanting to see the plane isn't too many, but it always worries me when Japanese start thinking positively about any aspect of their warlike past. Germans have rejected that past far more definitely than Japanese seem to have.
Of course, I wish Americans would reject their warlike present, too, but that is a different matter. |
There's nothing wrong with loving the design of a war machine. Terrible things happened in the past, but it was the people that did it, not the machines. Respecting the beautiful design the of Zero is perfectly fine. It's a very beautiful machine. |
And that's the point of the Wind Rises -- Jiro wanted to make a beautiful plane. His goal wasn't a war machine.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:37 pm
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mgosdin wrote: |
hashihime wrote: | I guess "hundreds" of people wanting to see the plane isn't too many, but it always worries me when Japanese start thinking positively about any aspect of their warlike past. Germans have rejected that past far more definitely than Japanese seem to have.
Of course, I wish Americans would reject their warlike present, too, but that is a different matter. |
There are many quotes regarding the dangers of ignoring the past. It is vital to understand what happened and why, otherwise repeats of historical errors will happen. An unblinking honest assessment is what is needed.
Oh, and the Zero was a hell of a piece of engineering / art. It deserves careful study & preservation along with it's contemporaries from the US, Britain & Germany.
Mark Gosdin |
I don't think that was what they were implying.
Japan's population, especially its youth, is starting to take on a more worringly nationalistic and xenophobic (even more than usual) political bent in response to the failures of the Japanese economy.
For a good example of this, just look at Kancolle and it's immense popularity--part is from the girls and gameplay, but part is because it fetishizes and majesties Japan's military and navy. I was brought to this unique opinion from a South Korean editorial, which is unfortunately only in Korean. I'm not fully sold on it--the author could be a crank. who knows--but it's food for thought.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7584
Location: Wales
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:05 pm
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Chagen46 wrote: | For a good example of this, just look at Kancolle and it's immense popularity--part is from the girls and gameplay, but part is because it fetishizes and majesties Japan's military and navy. |
And this is only a problem if your ancestors were on the "wrong" side? What about good ol' Uncle Sam?
If I was to post a random picture of a gun, chances are the next American who came along would be able to ID it instantly. That's not military fetishism?
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:47 pm
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Talk to the person who wrote that article. Remember that my source is someone saying what the gist of the article was (not even a translation), so I'm skeptical of it as of now but it's food for thought.
Quote: | And this is only a problem if your ancestors were on the "wrong" side? What about good ol' Uncle Sam? |
Even if I was Japanese I'd be worried about the shift to reactionary nationalism by Japan's youth in general.
I don't approve of the US' military fetishism either.
Quote: | If I was to post a random picture of a gun, chances are the next American who came along would be able to ID it instantly. That's not military fetishism? |
Are you not American?
I know it's a stereotype, but the gun nuts/otaku are actually a small but VERY vocal amount of Americans. Most wouldn't be able to ID a gun instantly.
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