Forum

CGord wrote:

So do fansubs become acceptable in cases like this?

Fansubbing isn't acceptable in any circumstance, and in this case it actually helped 4Kids' OP out; One Piece is more popular than Naruto in the United Kingdom and Australia, where even heavier edits are put over the already enormus count of changes in the US airing, and in Canada OP is comparable to Naruto at the very least.

Frankly, I'm ambivalent to this news; I've supported 4Kids' enterpreneurial adventures in the past, but like most I've hated the OP dub...then I saw the original OP anime and realized that it would never fly in America.

It's far too serious a show, with too much complex humour (so called "little things") and far too much layering of plot and character development to befit a "cartoony" style like it has. It would be the equivalent of taking a Shakespearean drama and dressing all the actors in clown suits; Shakespeare or clown fans might watch it, but people who lack experience with either wouldn't even bother.

4Kids has taken the move to sit on the license as far as we know; this is likely due to pressure from Viz/Shueisha, since 4Kids is making a profit off of the OP anime while Viz/Shueisha is not from handling the DVDs and producing the poorly-edited manga. I can't imagine Eiichiro Oda himself getting angry about anything; he's the type of fellow who changes controversial stuff in his manga without protest (like Whitebeard's manji).

Toei is so large and busy they might not care all that much what 4Kids does so long as they make a profit...until OP started getting terrible ratings in Japan recently, which might have sparked more interest in their global distribution.

Frankly, though, this is indicative of the death of the OP franchise; there's no company that has the financial resources to afford this juggernaut, and there's already a lot of "baggage" associated with the property (not to mention games and merchandise). All the names in the 4Kids anime are trademarked, so any other company picking up the same license *must* use them.

The only bets are FUNimation and VIZ, and FUNi has its hands full with Case Closed. VIZ could pick up the piece...and if they do, I'll look foreward to seeing them file chapter eleven bankruptcy. Anime smile

Malintex Terek wrote:

in Canada OP is comparable to Naruto at the very least.

What do you mean by that? Comparable in what?

Malintex Terek wrote:

Frankly, I'm ambivalent to this news; I've supported 4Kids' enterpreneurial adventures in the past, but like most I've hated the OP dub...then I saw the original OP anime and realized that it would never fly in America.

It's far too serious a show, with too much complex humour (so called "little things") and far too much layering of plot and character development to befit a "cartoony" style like it has. It would be the equivalent of taking a Shakespearean drama and dressing all the actors in clown suits; Shakespeare or clown fans might watch it, but people who lack experience with either wouldn't even bother.

All this means is that it was aimed towards the wrong audience, and clearly, it didn't pay off (please don't say "FDERJKLWJELK BUT IT'S FOR KIDS IN JAPAN ERKLWJELKRJEW GEESH," unless Japan's customs suddenly = America). For all the edits they made, the 4Kids dub was still fairly serious and violent, so you have to wonder why they even bothered.

And I doubt 4Kids is "sitting on the license." 4Kids has never, ever dropped/stop dubbing a series if it was within their power. Furthermore, they license shows in spurts, just like everyone else. Even if they were to sit on the license, I imagine whoever picks it up next would be able to just pick up where they left off, and if they wanted, re-visit the older episodes once 4Kids' license expires. It's similar to DBZ.

Maybe it was because Pokemon was/is far more marketable to their target audience than One Piece was. I don't have the stats or hard evidece to back this up (nor do I feel like doing so) butcompared to my half brother's brother, Pokemon apparently has been making money for two straight generations.

When we take Malik (my "quarter" brother) inside the gas station, he asks for Pokemon cards, not Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon (although Digimon doesn't air in VA, at least not for him to watch it). He's always watching Pokemon when it comes on and he has never once asked about One Piece.

Granted One Piece comes on late at night on the Weekend and Pokemon comes on at 5:00 or so every afternoon and then again at 8:00, so that may attribute to that, but here's when 4Kids could have stepped in. Surely they could have done something to allow their show more airplay.

But even if we take a detour from CN and go to their own block of tv on FOX, they don't even air it (anymore?). Instead they air (as I've seen Malik watch) Yu-Gi-Oh, Kirby, and GI Joe. I believe Yu-Gi-Oh even comes on for a straight hour unless I'm mistaken, and if I'm not there's a lost oppurtunity to Market One Piece; right after one of the most sucessful animes to hit America that doesn't start with a D.

Compare the once a week viewing times of One Piece to the every damm day viewings of Pokemon and it's no wonder that 4kids doesn't want to even mess with it anymore. It's just preventing them from hiring poorer voice actors and promotion time for the new Pokemon series that probably has a bunch of X's or 5000 at teh end of it to sound cool.

So maybe 4kids decided to either cut their losses? Or maybe they think One Piece is dead as dead and Pokemon is coming back in a big friggin way?

Ten points if you know the movie reference. -Rema

Quote:

Sadly, most companies will probably just look at One Piece's run in the US as a failure.

Because it was, but that was 4Kids' fault, not One Piece's. They tore it to bits in the hopes of making it more successful and in the process did exactly the opposite.

Quote:

Honestly, I think if Viz were to pick it up after 4Kids, dubbing it without the most intensive care would be corporate suicide.

I think it's just the opposite. 4Kids did SO bad that ANYTHING would be an improvement. All they'd need to do is recast the series, return to the original scripts, and stop making stupid edits.

Quote:

Toei is so large and busy they might not care all that much what 4Kids does so long as they make a profit...until OP started getting terrible ratings in Japan recently, which might have sparked more interest in their global distribution.

I'm not surprised if the ratings went down, they took several weeks off (pretty much unheard of in Japanese series), then had a ridiculously drawn out series of character-centric recap episodes sadwitched right in the middle of what should have been a dramatic sequence. It was worse than Naruto filler (although considerably shorter).

Quote:

All the names in the 4Kids anime are trademarked, so any other company picking up the same license *must* use them.

How does that work? Just because 4Kids trademarked Zoro as "Zolo" doesn't mean that Viz couldn't change it back. If you mean that "Zoro" is trademarked by Disney, it's not, "Zorro" is, and it just means "Fox" in Mexican anyways, and the only things the characters have in common is that they both use swords in some (completely different) way, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Ohoni wrote:

Quote:

Honestly, I think if Viz were to pick it up after 4Kids, dubbing it without the most intensive care would be corporate suicide.

I think it's just the opposite. 4Kids did SO bad that ANYTHING would be an improvement. All they'd need to do is recast the series, return to the original scripts, and stop making stupid edits.

Irony at its best.

I'm afraid I don't see your point.

Canuckian wrote:

What do you mean by that? Comparable in what?

Ratings. At least for a while, anyway; I heard OP also got shifted into a 4:00 A.M. timeslot, which would account for lower ratings as of late provided that's the case.

The countries where OP is most popular are the first to get 4Kids episodes; the UK tends to lead nowadays, and sometimes its Australia. Earlier this year, it was Canada.

Yashouzoid wrote:

All this means is that it was aimed towards the wrong audience

And who would we try to appeal to? Teens? There's not enough gore or "emo" for teens to like OP. Young adults? Apparently, [adult swim] is a polar block, with half the viewership hating anime and the other half being otaku; we couldn't get OP shown there if heck froze over.

"general audience" is out of the question, since putting anything on a major network like CN can't have a "general audience" because attendance is skewed heavily in favour of children and teens.

So, logically, a child's audience was the best route to go, and a Saturday Morning Block, which doesn't require people to pay extra money to see the show (like cable) offers the largest possible means of accessibility.

Yashouzoid wrote:

and clearly, it didn't pay off (please don't say "FDERJKLWJELK BUT IT'S FOR KIDS IN JAPAN ERKLWJELKRJEW GEESH," unless Japan's customs suddenly = America).

We've had this discussion before; what translates as "young boy" in Japan, which would be a teen~older teen, would be equivalent to children in terms of permittable cultural media in the United States.

Remember, Americans are conditioned from an earlier stage to connotate various stuff they see with reality; this is why anime is so popular. They're cartoons that aren't exaggerated to the point of taking a nose-dive into the Uncanny Valley.

One Piece completely ignores that logic since Japan (currently) lacks those same connotations. To the average Japanese person, OP looks a little weird, but it's still anime; there's no mental "seriousness of design" distinction between OP and, say, Naruto or Bleach to the Japanese mind.

Yashouzoid wrote:

For all the edits they made, the 4Kids dub was still fairly serious and violent, so you have to wonder why they even bothered.

No, I disagree. 4Kids arsininely terrible musical track prevented the dub from ever becoming serious; frankly, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

However, that's not exactly what I'm trying to get at; looking at any of the major OP battles, specifically in East Blue, the style of delivery is simmilar to other shounen like Kenshin, yet the appearence of OP belies this delivery, which is why I made the Shakespeare-clown analogy. It's a dichotomy in the truest since of the word; two incompatible elements of art + acting that click for some people, but simply repel everyone else.

Yashouzoid wrote:

And I doubt 4Kids is "sitting on the license." 4Kids has never, ever dropped/stop dubbing a series if it was within their power. Furthermore, they license shows in spurts, just like everyone else.

We don't know how large those "spurts" are, though. When typical companies license anime, they get get a twenty-six episode series, which is usually bigger than the Japanese airing season. I doubt that would be the case for something as huge as OP, since that means the marginal price of purchasing a "spurt" would reflect the current popularity of the show in Japan.

If that was the case, there's no way other countries poorer than the US could license the show, even if its subsidized, since OP was one of the #1 shows for many years.

Yashouzoid wrote:

Even if they were to sit on the license, I imagine whoever picks it up next would be able to just pick up where they left off, and if they wanted, re-visit the older episodes once 4Kids' license expires. It's similar to DBZ.

DBZ is a little different scenario; FUNimation started dubbing at what was considered the "climax" of the series, so interest could be maintained even though the new dub lacked the energy of the old FUNimation dub. Additionally, it was after a time of reruns, not a hiatus like OP; I doubt there's a lot of anticipation for what happens in the show relative to Naruto, so the impact of an "uncut OP" would lack the impression factor of DBZ.

Additionally, the redub of the DBZ episodes was never a priority, but something FUNimation did to milk the franchise. With Arabasta and possibly Skypiea out of the picture, it will be tough to go back and re-dub all of those episodes while trying to keep in line with the VIZ manga, which start Arabasta until next Fall, since people will have already seen those episodes and assume them to be reruns. Heavy promotion won't work in this case because VIZ has a synergy with Toonami, and if they get OP they won't prioritize it over Naruto, and FUNimation has no part in this synergy so they can't get advertising time either.

In any mean or way, it's a bad state of affairs for the show.

Ohoni wrote:

I'm afraid I don't see your point.

Viz is horrible with editing their manga line randomly and it frequently doesn't make sense (i.e. editing nipples out of volume 20 when the were left intact 7 or so volumes earlier).

Malintex Terek wrote:

Canuckian wrote:

What do you mean by that? Comparable in what?

Ratings. At least for a while, anyway; I heard OP also got shifted into a 4:00 A.M. timeslot, which would account for lower ratings as of late provided that's the case.

The countries where OP is most popular are the first to get 4Kids episodes; the UK tends to lead nowadays, and sometimes its Australia. Earlier this year, it was Canada.

Ya it did get the boot to 4:00 AM, ZatchBell got Pulled, and Case Closed Got the 12:00 AM Shift. Many of us deem this not because of Ratings, Because of YTV's Obligation to air a high amount of Canadian Content, as you can see none of those Shows were Canadian. Now Zatch Bell, and One Piece are Back(Airs before Naruto, at 7:30 PM,Naruto at 8:00 PM, ZatchBell at 8:30 PM, Then InuYasha, Eureka Seven, FMA, Bleach etc.). The Only one not to return this Fall was Conan. Though I suspect he will return, or atleast on The Anime Channel(Whenever that gets Aproved, I guess it just Gives Funi more time to dub).

However I know we got new Episodes for YTV, I didn't release that we had NEW ONE PIECE DUBS, Why? Becuase YTV's Airing of One Piece at 7:30 PM is in the late 20's or Early 30's, I know 4Kids TV was way ahead of that(Us Canucks do have Fox here), although you may be correct due to it's boot to 4:00 AM during the Late Spring/Early Summer, heck YTV aired All of Yu-Gi-Oh! Capsule Monster before 4KidsTV at 4:30 Am or something, luckily YTV gave Yu-Gi-Oh! a Decent Time Slot.

Quote:

Viz is horrible with editing their manga line randomly and it frequently doesn't make sense (i.e. editing nipples out of volume 20 when the were left intact 7 or so volumes earlier).

True, but the Naruto and One Piece anime have been better about it lately. I'd have hope. And they didn't start editing Zoro's name until after 4Kids started it.

I would think that, at the very least, if they were to pick up the liscense they'd learn from 4Kid's mistakes and treat the liscense with the respect it deserves.

Riyousha wrote:

crow-kun wrote:

CGord wrote:

So do fansubs become acceptable in cases like this?

Fansubs were acceptable as soon as 4kids touched it.

For once, I agree. It's best to watch a sub rather than an extremely censored dub with too much kiddy content. Confused

It's also best to watch the original before you do a character profile on a certain character from that show. For example: Nami's mom didn't get injured. She died. 4kids said she got injured because they wouldn't even allow death in their show. Sad

Anyways, I think it will drop in probably 2010. But I wish there was an uncut version of the show (I think the uncut version would be licensed by FUNimation).

I too think FUNi will probably pick it up. I just hope Zoro isn't voiced by Sabat doing his Piccolo voice...very un-suiting, lol.

2010 is a pretty long ways away. Might as well pick up the actual uncut DVD's from across the Pacific.

First off.
The admins at ANN erased my first reply on this topic, so i re-wrote it, go to page one of this topic for my first post.
(Thank you Microsoft Word 2003)

Second.
ANN posted a news report on this days following this post, thanks to ToonZone.com, and Answerman has an article in this week's edition (12-09-06).

Some people think that OP getting canned means that "there is a god" well, 4Kids only did this for their own sake.

Remember their slogan:
"It's what kids like" (something to that point)
They might have canned it because of poor fanbase, and thousands upon thousands bashing on the show (notably: G4TV's X-Play).

And i should think that VIZ and Funi should have the rights to the show... 4Kids messed it up, brutally!

--The FZ