Forum - View topicTurn-A Gundam Allegorical to Arab-Israeli Conflict?
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TcDohl
 Posts: 82 |
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As I was watching Turn-A Gundam, I realized that the conflict between the Moonrace and the Earth people was inspired by the situation in Israel and Palestine, respectively. Not the many similarities between Israel and the Moonrace:
1. The Moonrace claimed their right to return to their homeland, based on an "Ancient Contract", much like how many Jewish people claimed their right of Aliyah. 2. The Moonrace displaced the living areas of the Earth people, much how the settling Israelis displaced much of the resident Palestinian population. 3. The Moonrace has highly advanced weaponry and technology compared to the Earth people (though discounting the technology of the Egyptian armed forces which were comparable). There are a few more similarities but those are the ones that come to mind. I haven't seen Turn-A Gundam for a long while, so I don't think I can contribute much more to this discussion. Now, this is more or less a sensitive subject, so I want a civil discussion. |
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Gauss
 Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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About as much of an allegory of Europeans taking over injun land. Well, actually, even less. You're basically reading too much into it.
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TcDohl
Posts: 82 |
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Well, I find that a good majority of Gundam shows and movies are allegorical to real-world conflicts, much like how the One-Year War is often compared to World War 1.
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pieisexactlythree
 Posts: 72 Location: Portland, OR |
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First, I feel it somewhat necessary to point out that if you're going to draw this paralell, it should be done accurately. You're correct in citing the Palestinian diaspora which occured after 1948, but it would be irresponsible not to also reference the Jewish diaspora which occured after the year 70, and has been a dominant theme in that group's identity ever since.
Meanwhile, if you want sociopolitical alegories/metaphors, I'd say look no further than good ol' FMA. I've nearly lost count of the parallels between the events depicted in the series and the events of the last decade, and recent history. Here's a sample of my favorites: 1) Ishbal = Afganistan (or some amalgam of real life civilizations). Hell, the name even sounds central-Asian. The 'conflict of civilizations' meme comes across very strongly here. I consider this as a sympathetic portrail of third-world, traditional societies' resistance to Western hegemony (even if it ultimately results only in more suffering for their own people and can thus be construed as short-sighted and reactionary). 2) Phony pretext for preemtive strike in Leore = Iraq, and the Downing Street Memo. This also works for the Gulf of Tonkin incident of 1964. In this scenario Homunculus Bradly = the Bush Administration, and Archer is an analogue for Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc. 3) Roy Mustang, war criminal = a hell of a lot of Vietnam vets, whose lives were shattered by what they were commanded to do there. These tragic figures loom large in the history of all the major conflicts of the last 40 years or so. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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[Offending posts deleted, thread re-opened. --Nagi]
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TcDohl
Posts: 82 |
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???? What happened? I mean, at least say why they've offended, so that others may not tread on the issue again.
And yes, that is a major issue that I forgot to bring up. The diaspora of the Moonrace, and their return to a land they have not lived in for thousands of years, often forcibly displacing those who lived there previously, and causing an outpouring of refugees from the lands. |
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pieisexactlythree
Posts: 72 Location: Portland, OR |
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Some dude called my post BS. I took the bait and called him a troll. My bad. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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If 1 percent of Muslims commit crimes against humanity and get a pass, yet 1 percent of our own does the same in a war the whole damn military must be effing illegal, unjust, unethical and evil. Your quickness to blame us is insulting. We are trained to do one thing, and we do it very well.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Back on topic now; Is it really that surprising to see such allegories from Japanese anime, or manga? The experience of having war fought on their home land is still apparent in the back of the Japanese minds, and is an easy template for storytellers to use. |
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pieisexactlythree
Posts: 72 Location: Portland, OR |
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The representation of war in anime/manga will always be a huge theme for a country whose 20th century was completely shaped by WWII and its aftermath. That war is still clearly on the minds of a lot of folks over at Ghibli.
My point about characters like Roy, Hawkeye and the rest of the military characters was in fact not really at odds with Dargon's perspective, though he may not have seen it thus. What makes FMA's characterization so sophisticated is that forces the viewer to confront an ethical dilema. We're given sympathetic characters, who we can relate to emotionally, and we are confronted with the horrible things they have done. This challenges the viewer to look deeper and avoids the summary dismissal of the characters as evil, etc, because they're clearly not. This situation makes the viewer realize that they'd have probably done something similar under those circumstances. Therefore, the lesson I got from FMA and shows like it is that it is extremely important not to misjudge people or blame them for the decisions made by corrupt leaders, which they followed in good faith, because it was their job. Getting back to the main topic, I believe this is a recurrent theme in anime/manga because the Japanese people were themselves highly conflicted regarding WWII. Duty and loyalty to one's superiors are very important there, (causing one's superiors to loose face is unacceptable) and some have theorized that this is what caused the Japanese empire to continue fighting when defeat was inevitable. There was a lot of unexpressed resentment towards the regime for the suffering it brought on the Japanese people, most notably in the form of the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'd contend that in this context, Roy & Co are archetypal tragic heroes. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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By that logic, all Muslims must be barbaric demons, who should be wiped of the face of the earth. I don't believe that for one second. Although I have 2 very good reasons why I should.
Much better. Better than some silly allegory made to a point in history that has not yet been written or understood. And better than a point in history which has been written, and the overwelming majority conducted themselves with honor. |
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pieisexactlythree
Posts: 72 Location: Portland, OR |
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I agree completely. A close friend of mine is one of them. He detests the mission he's been sent to do, but he does his job well, and I respect him for it. |
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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For the record, don't make blanket statements about soldiers being war criminals, it's ridiculous. I completely agree with your conclusion on many levels pi, but I think you should be much clearer when stating such things. Sure some of them are, but people commit crimes under far less stressful situations where their own lives are not on the line. True war criminals may be criminals, but they're as much an exception to the average soldier as a rapist or murderer here at home is to the average citizen. And if you have a problem with WWII, Vietnam, or Iraq (or believe others do), just remember this and don't let anyone else say otherwise:
Soldiers don't start wars, politicians do. |
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pieisexactlythree
Posts: 72 Location: Portland, OR |
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Just to make this extremely clear, I stated that Roy Mustang of FMA had committed war crimes. I also drew the parallel between his subsequent emotional torment and the experiences of men who have fought in wars. Roy's penance took the form of his attempts to rise to power to displace the cruel and corrupt leadership which had put him in that position in the first place.
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jaybug39
 Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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I wish I had seen the Gundam mentioned in the start of this thread. I would feel much better about making comments.
But I have seen most of FMA, the last disc is in my queue. And I would like to disagree with Pieisexactlythree. But not in everything. I cannot think of any better parallel for Ishbal. Preemptive attack of Leore. Wouldn't Poland work better here? Leore/Poland were at peace, unl;ike Iraq, which was currently still at war with the US, only a cease fire had been called. Poland however had just seen its neighbor, the Sudatenland be given to Germany by Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister, who proclaimed there would be peace in our time. Roy Mustang is not a war criminal. He was ordered to execute the doctors Rockbell, by his legal superiors, as they were aiding and comforting the enemy. Most armies of the world will do this. I know for a fact that the captain of my second ship, had we been at war, would have been authorized to put a bullet in my head, for what I had done. Also let us not forget the Phillipines, Malaysia, China, and Korea circa the mid 1930s until 1945. And this would be as close as anything I have ever seen in anime, acknowledging what Japan did at that time. |
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