Forum - View topicMakoto Shinkai vs. Miyazaki (which do you prefer in style?)
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I've tried looking through the FAQs (which were no help), and spent a few minutes looking for a way to post a poll; but I seem to be retarded at following directions, and am unable to figure out how to do so. I would appreciate it if a mod would either explain how to add one to me in PM, or do it themselves.
Which of these two directors is your favorite between Makoto and Miyazaki, and why? I am also interested in knowing whether you are an experienced veteren of anime or a relative newcomer (it's all relative.... but let's choose some generic sum of 100 'seen all' and/or 'seen some' titles in your 'MyAnime' as the arbitrary boundary). For consistency sake, the format might follow my example: I've personally seen more than 100 different titles, and I personally enjoy the works of Shinkai more. They are of a much less... 'fairytale' nature, i.e. they do not have a happy ending neccessarily. If I wanted to watch fairytale works of fiction, I would watch Hollywood machinations; personally I enjoy the unpredictable and often tragic twists anime tends to offer, a trait Miyazaki does not normally possess (it almost feels like a copout to me sometimes, with him appealling to the masses in the ending). Although Miyazaki's movies are decently unpredictable (I DO like his movies after all, you can tell from my ratings), they all seem to have that oh so happy fairy tale ending that kind of detracts from the incredible effort made up to that point in telling the story. Shinkai on the other hand, is obviously MUCH better at actual script management, and I like the artwork of his movies a LOT (5cm is just.... I can't even begin to describe how excited I am to see that movie, the artwork is unblievable for anime... I might have to go change my pants just thinking about it...); though Voices of a Distant Star didn't seem to have his distinctive artwork, the script was probably the second best ever in my book, maybe even number 1. I'm not sure how much Shinkai adds/detracts from the actual scripts of his projects, as I am unsure of what exactly his job entails; but all of the scripts in his projects (that I've seen) are absolutely phenomenal in my book. For the record, I DID do some searches and found a few threads.... but I was hoping for a little more intelligent and/or deep conversation on the technical differences and opinion of subject matter. I'm particularly interested in seeing a few member's opinion (though I'm relatively sure on a few member's opinions  ) so I'd appreciate any well articulated thoughts here.
Last edited by selenta on Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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one3rd
 Posts: 1819 Location: アメリカ |
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You can't post polls. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator  Posts: 11525 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Mods and staff can make polls, but I can't figure it out for the life of me. I actually tried making one based on another user's thread a few days ago and tried clicking a bunch of options available to me, though still no luck. I then asked the staff, but have gotten no reply, whatsoever. I'll try playing around some more later to see if I can accidentally discover how -_-...
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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This is very difficult for me to say anything about. First off, I've only seen Voices of a Distant Star and She and Her Cat from Shinkai, but really loved both of them. On the other hand, I've seen Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service (dub), and half of Laputa from Miyazaki. It's not like I have seen a lot from either (of course, it's not like Shinkai has done much either).
The thing for me is, most of the Miyazaki films I've seen thus far, I didn't particularly like. Part of this, I'm sure, is due to the large amounts of attention each film receives, thus making me think I'm going to see a masterpiece of cinema and instead end up with a kind of cute film with a message (Spirited Away) or something that kept bashing me over the head with a theme every three seconds (Princess Mononoke). Of the films I've seen of his, and this is coming from a sub-only purist, I actually preferred Kiki's Delivery Service, the one I've only seen on dubbed VHS. It has more subtleties, if memory serves me, unlike Mononoke. Plus, it was one of the ones based on someone else's work--so I wonder if that has something to do with why I prefer it? Perhaps in that case I'd also like Howl's Moving Castle as well. On the other hand, Voices of a Distant Star received a fair amount of muted attention. It didn't make the huge splash that any Miyazaki films have made, but has an incredibly high rating in the Encyclopedia. I watched it. I cried. I loved it. There wasn't a sense of disappointment that I have felt with every Miyazaki film. It lived up to what was said about it. So much of what I dislike about Miyazaki films--the sense of being unfulfilled--isn't necessarily the fault of the film itself, but it still affects my ability to like it, it makes it miss out on the certain intangibles that take an average anime and turn it into a favorite, etc. Miyazaki films tend to be technically outstanding, but suffer in the unexplainable intangibles department for me. So, in the end, if I had to choose between watching A Place Promised in Our Early Days or The Cat Returns, I'm going to turn to Shinkai's films/OAVs first. It's not that he's better--only time will tell if he'll ever reach the pinnacle of animation like Miyazaki has--but I just happen to prefer what I've seen of his over what I've seen of Miyazaki thus far. That being said, I'm still going to keep watching Miyazaki films--I'm just going to rent first rather than buy. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18616 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I have previously refered to Shinkai as "one of Japan's most promising and gifted young animators." As for comparing him to Miyazaki, a quote from my review of Place Promised In Our Earlier Days:
So, in a nutshell, I can't consider Shinkai to be on Miyazaki's level until I see more of what he can do with full-length projects. Voices was a masterpiece in every aspect except character design, but it's also only 25 minutes long, and Shinkai's work showed greater flaws in the 91-minute Place Promised, chief among them some issues with plotting. He may be one of the best when it comes to character dialogue, interaction, and development, but his plotting and application of sufficient story detail in Place Promised left a bit to be desired. Whatever else you might think about his style, Miyazaki's never had a problem with establishing and developing the environments of his movies and the rules for how things work in them. It should also be pointed out that Shinkai has basically told the same story in both of his major works to date: that of people desperately reaching out to each other over great divides. While the similarities of Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind could be argued, neither is anything like Spirited Away or Porco Rosso, for instance. Can Shinkai make an effective movie on a different topic? That remains to be seen. On the artistic front, no one short of GONZO's top people can match Shinkai on the quality of his background artistry and use of CG, but his character designs suck. Miyazaki's characters all have a similar look about them, but at least he can draw them and make them look good. This may all sound like I'm bad-mouthing Shinkai, but that isn't my intent. I am a big fan of both but for different reasons, since so far they have shown different style and have generally targeted their works at different audiences. With the possible exception of the quite graphic Princess Mononoke, Miyazaki's works are typically made with young and general audiences in mind (hence the reason for the more "fairy-tale" feel), while Shinkai's works are aimed at teenagers and adults and more oriented towards otaku. Both have proven very good in their respective domains. |
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cheezisgoooood
Posts: 253 Location: Orlando, FL |
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So far, Miyazaki is a more accomplished mastermind for sure.
I do agree that both Voices and Place Promised were just a tad too similar. I love both films, and I'm glad I own the Shinkai collection as they truly are the works of a talented artist, but I would choose a Miyazaki film over Shinkai any day. Miyazaki's films are more magical in my opinion, and more diverse. Many of his films end up being very different in their theme and the point they try to get across. Miyazaki's films also give off more personality and charm as well. To me, Miyazaki is a genius, and Makoto Shinkai is a talented artist. |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Well... to be fair, I'm not particularly concerned as to who is "better", as I think the experience Miyazaki has alone seals the deal in sheer quality as a director. I was curious which of the two styles people prefer, and if they do prefer one to the other, how much anime have they seen? Very true though, Shinkai's execution of the plot was pretty lacking in the second half of Place Promised. That comment that the top people at Gonzo might be able to keep up in quality with Shinkai? If that's the case.... I may have to go buy me Last Exile based solely on the idea that it MIGHT be as good. Personally, I really really don't like Miyazaki's character design. Shinkai's is by no means my favorite, but even if he never gets better, I'd prefer his over Miyazaki's. Can't make polls? That's the conclusion I came to, but then again... there's a whole section on polls in the FAQ (even if it's wrong), so I figured they had to be SOME way to do it unless they disabled it and haven't updated the FAQ in FOREVER. |
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Deltakiral
 Posts: 3338 Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK) |
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I agree with you here Key. I think that Miyazaki is more like Disney where his movies can be watched by anyone (Age not a factor) whereas Shinkai isn't quite there yet. In fact I think that Shinkai has a lot to prove to me with his new movie, if it also has the same problem as Places then proves that he no where ready to even be compare to Muyazaki. Now don't get me wrong I love Voices it one of few anime that I have seen and been in near tears. But Place Promised while having some really good music feels like a step back in terms of storytelling. Shinkai still has the ability to be one of the best Director in the next couple of years but he has a lot to prove to all of us in my opinion. Till next time, Delta Kiral |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Having seen quite francly more anime than I would care to count I have to agree that on the purely aethethic front Shinkai is virtually unmatched. From his cozy indoor views, to his vast horizons and absolutely astonishing clouds all of his works so far have been for me the visual equivalent of a blast of pure oxygen. The only other director that I can think of that has achieved a similar effect is Abe in Haibane Renmei, allthough with a very different palette.
I also have to say taht I actually liked the character designs in Place Promised. Certainly more than most miyazaki stuff simpy because I prefer the more modern designs as apposed to the more realistic and rounded style that Ghibli uses. As far as plot is concerned, I find that aethethically emotional works as Shinkai's can get away with plot imperfections as long as the core idea and feeling reaches the audience with its full force, which it so far has succeded in doing. Miyazaki's stuff is magical, but I found his works besides Spirited Away and Laputa to be somewhat underwhelming and overly moralistic. The sense of WOW just wasn't quite there and I would really like to see him do more original stuff in the style of Porco Rosso. That said, fairytales definitely have an important place in our culture and as a provider of such tales Miyazaki more than earns his keep. Lets see how Shinkai's next two projects turn out first, then if he does indeed grow technically while maintaining his amazing style I think it will be safe to say that he has surpased Miyazaki. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Until I saw Place Promised, I would have agreed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Shinkai had the potential to tell masterful stories and create a body of work as strong/even stronger than that of Miyazaki. I absolutely adore Hoshi no Koe and his other short films; they show true sensibilities of a talented director and storyteller in script, art direction, and overall quality. Other Worlds is one of the best animated short films I've ever seen, even including works of Norstein and Trnka and other influential short film animators. However, as his debut feature work, I'm afraid Shinkai's Place Promised left a relatively negative impact on me.
There's a big difference between telling a story on a short subject (a la She and Her Cat or Hoshi no Koe) and crafting a story for a full-length film. If care is not taken, scripts can become less tight and more convoluted. And that's what I felt happened a little in Place Promised. It's a beautiful film, but I had trouble connecting to it. The characters felt too much like archetypes instead of rounded personalities and the plot, although interesting enough to carry the film through a first viewing, doesn't really have the strength for mulitple viewings. I'll agree that while the subject matter had the potential to create a much more interesting film than the fantasy epics of Miyazaki, the actual storytelling skills of the director fell too short. On the other hand, while the subject matter of Miyazaki's classics are often simple folk tales that rely on character archetypes, he is able to weave his stories in a way that makes his films a pleasure to view mulitiple times. In fact, in terms of feature films, I'd say Miyazaki's biggest rival right now is Satoshi Kon, who is a master screenplay writer and has created consistently phenomenal work from the beginning of his career. I'd say that Shinkai still has worlds of potential, but 5cm will really have to be something amazing to make me think of him the way I used to while enjoying his soft, ethereal short films. And on the subject of animation quality... Shinkai's films are very beautiful and atmospheric, but in terms of the quality of realistic animated character movement, I'd say no Japanese studio even comes close to Ghibli (even my beloved Studio 4°C). Character design is a matter of personal taste. For me, Miyazaki's simple character designs are much more pleasing than Shinkai's (especially in Hoshi no Koe... if that film had any weakness, it was the character designs.) As for your inquiry into anime experience, I have come to the above conclusion after seeing over 300 anime films/series in full + 100 more in part, and I'm very familiar with both directors' work. I've seen all of Miyazaki's feature films and a few of his television works, and I've seen everything Shinkai has done so far except for Egao. I'm also an animator myself, so that is always a large factor in my reaction to anime titles. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18616 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Last Exile was very good on the artistic front (some of the best aerial combat footage ever) and definitely Gonzo's most well-rounded project to that point. I was really referring more to Gankutsuou here, though. It doesn't exploit sunsets and tricks of lighting like Shinkai's work does, but it'll blow your mind with the sheer complexity and richness of its details and patterns. If Gonzo and Shinkai ever teamed up, THAT would be a sight to behold. (Kinda doubt that would ever happen, though, since Shinkai showed a propensity for micromanaging in his first collaborative project.) |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Slightly OT: To double check the popularity of Makoto Shinkai, I digged up the old poll of favorite director. In which he ranked #8.
Yet Tatsuya Ishihara wasn't there.  I'd say he's the best director of TV series.
Back to Shinkai vs. Miyazaki: After all, Shinkai is very young compared to Miyazaki. Life experiences do make differences. Hopefully we'll see more diversed topics by Shinkai in the future. |
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hagakure|returns
Posts: 407 |
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Comparing Shinkai to Miyazaki is like comparing Lebron (protential) to Jordan (6 Champision/mvp final). He ain't there yet.
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Anthony P
Posts: 227 Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US |
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I agree. While I've only seen three of Miyazaki's films (Nausicaa, Mononoke, and Spirited Away), I'd be a fool not to admit that Miyazaki is the most accomplished anime director in terms of visuals that I've seen thus far. And, perhaps I just haven't seen the right Miyazaki film yet, but I feel that his writing is a bit amateurish and indulgent, particularly in Spirited Away.
Yes! I know that Kon is a well-recognized and lauded director, but I don't think that he gets quite the degree of recognition he deserves. I'd say he's one of the most adroit screenwriters out there, and his writing skills certainly surpass what I've seen of Miyazaki's. Kon also employs a good deal of discipline along with his creativity, which is something Miyazaki could learn from. |
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JoshuaStChristopher
 Posts: 351 |
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I'd say Shinkai, only because what he represents to me is the future of the medium. If he could do Voices just on his own, wait until he grows and matures with his styles. Miyazaki is a great guy, and on a technical level his films are pretty amazing, but I was honestly underwhelmed when watching all of his films. Of course, The Place Promised was a tad underwhelming, but the emotion presented through it, and the hard work and brilliant artistry was totally fufilling.
I think Miyazaki is coming towards the end of his career, and he's going to leave us with an amazing body of work, but I'm looking towards the future, and to me, that's Shinkai. |
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